"Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist" by Margalis Fjelstand, PhD

[raine]

Thank you, all, for the recommendation. I have to read this book!

[OpenHeart]

Okay, I've been reading this book for over a week.  I actually went and purchased a hard cover copy so I could annotate it and refer to it more easily than the downloaded version. 

Well, I thought my eyes were opened so I guess now they are bugged out...   I've actually had to stop annotating as entire pages were highlighted.  So many questions I had over the years, so much damage that kept building up that I could never figure out where it was coming from.  Well, finally the FOG is beginning to lift, I'm less mystified and the only confused person in the house is the DxNPD.  I'm nearly half way through the book (actually reread the first several chapters) and the inside of my cheeks are raw from biting back all the OMG!, OMG!, OMG!'s that I want to shout.    DxNPD would be shocked to know just how exposed he has become and even more so that the jig is up.  I'm actively reclaiming my life back!  You all should have seen the look on his face when I told him he would have his own checking account and would be paying the bills that have a direct effect on him (I didn't phrase it like that but he knew when I said he would be paying for Netflix and his own car payment what it meant).    No Netflix doesn't bother me and if his car is repossessed, oh well.  Not my problem!

When the book points out how our lives are taken over living the BP/NP's life and we eventually give up ourselves and lose awareness of our own wants, needs, beliefs, etc., I began doing as the book suggests and writing down the BP/NPDs rules, etc.  That has been eye opening also.  I am also realizing that this may be a long process.  Yesterday, hub was in a rush to leave for work and was running close to being late.  My own anxiety level began climbing as I always would rush around and get his stuff organized and ready for him to head out the door.  Instead, all I had done was prepare dinner and left the rest of his work prep to him.  He stopped onto the patio for something and our new neighbors were outside.  He began talking with them and seemed to totally lose track of his rush to leave for work.  After a few minutes (he was now late), I stuck my head out and mentioned the time (I was relieving my own anxiety). 

Afterwards, when he was gone and I was reflecting on what I had done (stepping in), I realized I need to stop doing that.  But secondly, I wondered if this was part of how he gets us alienated from our neighbors.  This may sound convoluted (and most things with my NPD are), but wherever we move, within a few months, no one speaks to us.  And as new neighbors move into the neighborhood, the same thing happens, only quicker (not so many people to influence perhaps??).  I realized that what I did could be construed as controlling (and hub believes I control everything).  In the book, the authors point out that the BP/NPD see the caretaker as responsible for everything but, at the same time, they consider them controlling.  Anyway, over the years, I have learned of other ways my DxNPD hub has twisted people's opinion of me and this may be part of this mystery.  (Ex.  Hub told his coworkers I am a lesbian who wanted to date the women he was interested in and was very competitive in this so that when we would go to a work function, no one would speak to me.  Whether they believed hub's stories or not, I was persona non grata... ...and this isn't even the worst one). 

I see my counselor on Thursday and will be taking the book with me.  I have marked some pages where the author talks about things I have told my counselor that I couldn't make sense of.  Now I can. 

Will post again in a week or two. 

[MakingChanges]

I think it's hard initially to decide what is caretaking and what is a kind reminder from you as his partner that he's running late.  I find that I'm at the stage now where I don't do much of anything for anyone anymore.  I swung the pendulum in the other direction.  I hope to eventually settle in the middle as I fumble through the process of not caretaking but learning how to be a healthy partner.

[OpenHeart]

I think it's hard initially to decide what is caretaking and what is a kind reminder from you as his partner that he's running late.  I find that I'm at the stage now where I don't do much of anything for anyone anymore.

You are so right, MakingChanges.  So much time has gone into making sure DxNPD is doing what he is obligated to do, has said he would do or needs to do but would leave until I finally do it instead that figuring out what is really just mine to take care of makes my head spin.  The main thing is you are making that change.  We didn't arrive at the point we are at now all in a day...and reclaiming ourselves will take time, too.  To quote an old hair color commercial..."I'm worth it!!"  (and so are you!)

Spence

[MakingChanges]

I know we'll get ourselves stabilized eventually.  But I'm very aware that I don't volunteer for anything anymore and can't be bothered getting involved with someone else's problems.  I feel very uncaring, but that's where I am right now in my bouncing back.

[OpenHeart]

Still not done with this book but am really taking my time and reading it well.  It was hard to read the section about giving up Hope, Guilt and Shame.  I wanted to run away shouting NOOO to the idea of giving up hope.  But then I realized I had already begun doing just that.  As I realize that dxNPDh is mentally ill and really cannot change (all the years of experience that have proven this to be true), giving up hope that he can or will change becomes a relief, putting down a load, a burden.  Giving up guilt seems a bit easier but giving up Shame when it has been a part of me as long as I can remember is a challenge.  To help myself in this, I have been working on letting go of ruminating (stop thinking about the PD and what was or what might be) and focusing on setting new goals.  I don't even know what many of those are yet except to exercise more so I feel better and to find a recreational group of some sort.  One way I am working on lessening Shame in my life is that I am making myself stand up straight and look up rather than walk with slouched shoulders staring at the ground.  I guess it is my own version of acting your way to right thinking.  When I walk with confidence I do feel better, but as soon as I slouch and avoid eye contact, my self-esteem plummets. 

Am so glad I found this book.  I see a therapist and between the two, I feel I am making progress.  At times, the book suggests topics I wouldn't otherwise think to broach with my T and at other times, it provides me with some insights in the PD or in myself.  Will again update when I hit another benchmark.  Spence

[MakingChanges]

I think all of us here have a degree of codependency.  We all take on the broken and try to fix them.  Finally realizing that I can't make someone not have a PD, has been enlightening to me.  I can't control them or fix them like I've tried to do for so many wasted years.  The acceptance of this opens up our lives to so many choices.  Do I stay or do I go?  Can I accept this person as they are?  Am I OK to walk  the outside world alone because my PD partner is too dysregulated to be a true partner?  Or do I want to step away from it all, heal, and find a healthy partner that can be the person I want in my life?  We get one chance at life.  As far as marital vows go, I feel that if a person is mentally ill but won't seek help and actively work to make themselves a good partner to me; then the vow is already broken.  I personally have no problem stepping away if someone acts out at me.  That's not a life that I want for myself or my children.

[bonnieG]

The one negative comment I have is the suggestion she gives to use the  "I feel /I want" communication *template* with the N or BPD.

I always felt like telling my pdxh my real feelings and what I wanted to have from him backfired at me! It gave him far too much ammunition to deny and refuse me (more punishment) or sabotage- when we were still together.

She also suggest a final "Otherwise I will do xyz...as a result" Which to my Pdxh was nothing but an ultimatum and a challenge to see if I would really DO xyz. He never heard this in the spirit of open sharing and collaboration.

I realize it works with normal folks and works well, it's honest, open communication. Just never seemed to help me with Pdxh.
bonnie

[OpenHeart]

The one negative comment I have is the suggestion she gives to use the  "I feel /I want" communication *template* with the N or BPD.

She also suggest a final "Otherwise I will do xyz...as a result" Which to my Pdxh was nothing but an ultimatum and a challenge to see if I would really DO xyz. He never heard this in the spirit of open sharing and collaboration.
bonnie

Lot's of things that work on normal folks NEVER work on an NPD.  However, I have begun using the Cambridge communication model on rare occasion with some success.  The thing I find is it is necessary to keep the focus totally on my own thoughts and feelings about a situation, never mentioning the dxNPDh.  And the ultimatum needs to be simply what I am willing to do to accomplish what I want.  For example, NPD rarely will help with housework.  When I could still work, I had someone come in every two weeks to wash floors and vacuum thoroughly.  To cut costs when I couldn't work anymore, I no longer do that (I have MS). 

DxNPDh did not pick up after himself no matter how much I asked.  So I finally brought it to him that I felt physically drained just picking up every day and was finding it difficult to do the more demanding household cleaning tasks.  I said I would like us to set up a picking up schedule for each of us so I spent less time doing that and could accomplish more each day. I had to include myself in that list or he would feel picked on.  I concluded that if we couldn't do that, I was going to hire back someone to come in every couple of weeks.  And I meant that and still mean it.  We now have the schedule and no, he isn't great at following it unless I prompt him, but it has made a difference for me.   

My dxNPDh does not respond well to ultimatums or even to shared feelings probably because of the belief that others cause feelings so if I have any, then I must be blaming him.  Using this communication model on him when I had deep feelings of sadness, hurt, grief, etc., would blow up in a second.  But to accomplish something that is black and white seems to go better.   

[Nicholas]

I tried several different communication models with my exuNPD and none really worked out. I found it exhausting to have to constantly think about how I was going to respond to a statement by the PD, and since so many of his comments were based around anger I was constantly worried that I'd say the wrong thing and set him off.

In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

[OpenHeart]

In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

Bingo!   

[sjvalleygirl]

I think all of us here have a degree of codependency.  We all take on the broken and try to fix them.  Finally realizing that I can't make someone not have a PD, has been enlightening to me.  I can't control them or fix them like I've tried to do for so many wasted years.  The acceptance of this opens up our lives to so many choices.  Do I stay or do I go?  Can I accept this person as they are?  Am I OK to walk  the outside world alone because my PD partner is too dysregulated to be a true partner?  Or do I want to step away from it all, heal, and find a healthy partner that can be the person I want in my life?  We get one chance at life.  As far as marital vows go, I feel that if a person is mentally ill but won't seek help and actively work to make themselves a good partner to me; then the vow is already broken.  I personally have no problem stepping away if someone acts out at me.  That's not a life that I want for myself or my children.

Very well put... Since becoming aware, I have that feeling of freedom. It can also be a little frightening to think I can really move forward to the life I want. May take some getting used to but I'm sure well worth being out of my comfort zone for a little while.

[Nicholas]

In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

Bingo!   

That was the difficult part. The PD was very good at convincing people of his expertise on any given subject and could seemingly quote things verbatim that he'd read decades ago and would regularly talk of his achievements or accreditations. It wasn't until I started to understand overt narcissism vs. covert narcissism that it made sense to me.

They present with high expectations of entitlement, always looking for favorable treatment, which of course interferes with all of their relationships, which they are unable to maintain satisfactorily.  They have an intense need for admiration, and work hard to seek out situations where their insatiable need can be met by others.  If, for any reason the desired admiration is not forthcoming, they will go into a rage.  They are so self-absorbed that it would rarely occur to them that others would have reciprocal needs.  Because of their need to be the "best", they behave in a haughty manner with others.  They often feel scorned or rejected, and in return they are scornful of others....

It is in the "having" that they feel powerful.  They also have a fondness for fast-tracking knowledge, so they will observe others whom they admire, then "model" that behavior, claiming it as their own, which means that a lot of the time they are frauds. They have no problem saying that they have achieved awards, (such as diplomas, degrees, accreditations etc), when if fact this is often untrue.

http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/revealing-the-two-faces-of-narcissism-overt-and-covert/

[TurnThePage]

Thank You! Thank You!! Thank You!!!  for all the reviews and posts on this book.

Downloaded it the other day and WOW! so happy I did! Halfway through it and I know I will be rereading it.

Ready to Reclaim My Life!

[Stevie]

Nicholas - What an excellent site.  Thanks so much for sharing.  Lucky me, I have one of each, overt and covert.  I used to call them npd extrovert and introvert.  Ime overt npds are more easily "outed ", lol, as it were.  My overt npd son shows his traits and rage to others, because he is involved with so many people.  Nm mostly only tortures close family members, so casual people may not believe how toxic she is.  I have long been nc, and only discuss nm with dd, dh and on this board.  Luckily except for esf and gcbrother and family, all other extended family see her for exactly what she is.

[twogrey]

Thank You! Thank You!! Thank You!!!  for all the reviews and posts on this book.

Downloaded it the other day and WOW! so happy I did! Halfway through it and I know I will be rereading it.

Ready to Reclaim My Life!

I just got it yesterday.  A great book. 

[Rainstorm]

I've heard so much about this book and am interested in reading it. I'm not sure if my husband has NDP or something else. Do you think I would still find it helpful?

I can't decide to get it as an e-book or paperback. I like rereading parts and underlining passages that are meaningful to me, but I don't want my husband to find this  book either. I could probably hide it but he is snoopy sometimes.

[headinblender]

Rainstorm,
Here are the names of some of the chapters.  Maybe this will help you decide.

Is My Partner Really a Borderline or Narcissist?
Why the Borderline/Narcissist Needs a Caretaker
What Is a Caretaker?
Emotional Distortions of Caretakers
Stages of Healing
Increasing Your Self Confidence
Anxiety-Reducing Skills with the BP/NP
Leaving or Staying

I bought the book in hardcover and threw away the dust jacket. Underneath was just a plain black book with the name on the spine.

Take care of yourself,
hib


headinblender

[Rainstorm]

Thanks for the info headinblender, it sounds like I'd probably get something good from it even if my h isn't one of those.

[openskyblue]

I know it may sound trite to say this, but this book changed my life.  I'd read a lot about NPD and BPD (my husband's diagnosis), but it really wasn't until I read "Stop Caretaking" that I truly understood what I was dealing with -- and how to save what was left of my poor, exhausted brain and heart. 

There was a while there when I had this book on my phone.  I'd look at specific sections that I had bookmarked before I went into the house at the end of the day -- when my husband used to get wound up.  The best thing I learned was that what he had WAS a serious mental illness and that this was not really anything I could do anything about.  Even though this realization led to a lot of grief at first, it was later very freeing for me.