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My PD father has never been interested in me or my sister.

Neither my PD father nor his PD wife like children.  They have the "children should be seen and not heard" attitude.  There was not one moment of my entire childhood that I felt truly loved and cared for.  It was incredibly damaging to me being the SG for the family and it set me up perfectly to marry my (now ex) PD husband.

That has also caused me to look at my FOO and see just how completely awful everything was.  I never had a chance at a normal life. 

Once we didn't speak for two years because we got into an argument and I told him that I would wait for him to call me.  After two years, I realized he didn't care enough about me to call me and that I would never speak to him again, So I resumed calling him.

I've been chasing a relationship with my father for my entire life.  I was able to identify this and I no longer want to beg anyone for any kind of relationship.

Like, I'm so difficult or something.

He never thought that I was important enough to spend any time with when I was a child.  He didn't think that it was important enough to work on a relationship with me for the last 15 years.    He's never wanted a sincere connection with me.  He had 33 years to make ANY attempt at one and has never done it.

Reading this I wondered if you were talking about my F  :wave: But I know that he pays attention to my half siblings,  doing for them things that never did for me, so I know you are not my little sister (who I've never met, my F cheated on my M with her M, so we were not in talking terms when I left my country many years ago).

You see, after a lot of tears and thinking, I believe my F wanted to have the perfect family because his FOO was out of a horror book. Ny grandfather was an alcoholic batterer, my grandmother probably BPD from the way she liked to play divide and conquer. I don't think my F cares for me at all, as a person. But I am his daughter, so socially he is supposed to care about me. My M -they reconciled- will expect him to care, and also one aunt, so he will be forced to ask about me from time to time. When I lived with my M, he never called me directly, not even when I was once in the hospital with peritonitis: he got news about me asking my M.

After my M kicked him out of the house, I did the same thing as you did. Wait for him to call me. He neved did, and eventually I started calling again when it became obvious he was never going to. After he got a tablet and whatsapp I thought he would like to talk to me. He does it with his sister, to the point my M is jealous. But the truth is he is simply not interested in me. He doesn't care to be a part of my life.

He is the big source of my pain. My love for my M died a very long time ago and I don't cry for her. But I still cry for my F, and his is the wound I was trying to "fix" with xH. However, recently I gave up doing anything about it. The F I want does not exist. No matter how much I'd like it, that person does not love me. I am trying to work with the wound, but for me the first measure was to stop trying. If a man is not romantically interested in me, that's not going to change even if I call million times. That will only hurt me. My F is the same. For whatever reason, the paternal love does not exist inside him, and keeping in touch only reminds me of the impossibility of make him love me. So I stopped. I am NC with them since the first days of January. At least I am in peace, knowing this is it. This is as good as it will be.

What feels good for you? I decided to go NC with him when I noticed he never said happy birthday to me, in my last birthday, both on the other side of the world from our homes. I was so sad, I am usually on the other side of the world from him. What do you feel when thinking about calling once again? Perhaps a change in frequency will give you some peace, even if all you do is listening (my F will not speak, so this was not an option for me)? What do you want for your child, keeping in mind he will never be a loving grandfather? (Congrats!)


Your post here reminds me that it would be extra helpful if all of us started our posts like this with a super quick snapshot review of the history with the PD of discussion. Can you remind us of the history of your PDMIL? Why did you sever ties for so long? Context will be helpful, so I can avoid giving you a stock response.

Also, know that the wavering/second guessing feeling you have is something I experience all the time. Partially because I am a recovering co-dependent and don't know when to draw a hard unforgiving line and the other because I value connectedness so "break ups" are hard.
Chosen Relationships / Re: financially irresponsible w/taxes
« Last post by October99 on Yesterday at 05:02:51 PM »
Financial abuse is real, devastating, and can cripple you for life. It was my deal breaker and I can’t divorce him because I would have to support him until the kids are raised. I separated, but he is still dependent on me, but costs me less than divorcing for now. I hate him for it...lies, broken promises and mounds of unpaid debt in his name.
Separating & Divorcing / Re: Still needs control
« Last post by Liftedfog on Yesterday at 04:55:28 PM »
Breathe.   You are no longer on his leash. You are no longer his emotional caregiver.    He knows he has lost control of you and trying to still control you in other ways.   The more he hurts you the more you are convinced you did the right thing by leaving.  He is so disordered that he doesn't see that.   Continue on your path to healing and ignore him.  Hopefully you will be done getting anything from the house.  Big hug. 
For android devices, and maybe others there is a browser called

Firefox focus.  It's like a privacy browser, very stripped down and erases history every time you close it.
Chosen Relationships / Re: Validation doesn't seem to work
« Last post by 1footouttadefog on Yesterday at 04:37:16 PM »
From what you describe it seems to me that  this woman may have more than a personality disorder, or that her level of having a personality disorder is extensive enough to merit medical intervention.

Perhaps a boundary might be that you don't accept abuse, and if abuse continues you separate yourself from the abuse until she gets help.
Chosen Relationships / Re: financially irresponsible w/taxes
« Last post by 1footouttadefog on Yesterday at 04:23:44 PM »
Taxes, it's stressful around her for entirely the opposite reasons as many posted.  Leave it to a pd to ruin things one way or another.

My pdh is a total dudley-do-right when it comes to paying bills.  He goes into an OCD panic every Jan. Waiting for the tax statements to all come it.  He tries to get me to join in the panic.  He has stuff all laid out in a counter top and stares at it often through the day.  He wants anxiously for the mail each day.  He calls people to inquire about forms we have not received yet even though the deadline has not passed.  But but they got it to us a week earlier last year.  He actually remembers, yikes.

He cannot simply discuss these things he has to badger me about them with ridiculous scenarios, what if...

Or he goes into these circular arguments trying to get me in a snit with him.  Like: x form has not come yet.  Me, okay maybe later this week. Pd, what if it does not come at all, it's really late, last year we had it by x date.
Me,  it's okay, if not here in a week we can call them.  Pd, call now, you need to call.  Me, no its not late yet, just later than last year.  Pd, fine we just won't do taxes, I should just burn this shit and to help with it all.  Blah blah blah bkah.

They he worries about if everything has come yet because he is in a hurry to make an appointment with the tax preparation accountant.   And he argues back and forth if he should make an appointment for the next week or will it be too early if z or x form does not come by then.

I reassure him it does not matter because we can mail or fax the missing item when it comes even after the appointment.  No, he won't hear it and comes up with stupid scenarios and panic. Etc etc.

  Then after its done he is actually in a panic about getting the bill from the accountant.  He calls looking for it once a week.  They explain to him that they don't make bills out until after tax day because they are busy making the big bucks actually preparing returns and they do billing when things slow back down
 But nooooo, pdh the narc is special and they should realize they need to change process just for him.   

Every year he forgets something we need when he sees the tax man.  This year he forgot to take the amount we paid in property tax on vehicles.  And guess what we faxed the numbers to them like we do every year with whatever is missing.

Whohoo.  Just shows all the drama is for attention and not actually about getting it right. 

As to the parents of the med tech student above getting the form, it may or not be fair and best.  The thing to do in a non pd world would be to compare  the difference with and without on both forms and then discuss the difference amounts and see what is best and maybe divide the greater amount between households when it comes.

The parents may have been counting on the tax offset to reduce the cost of helping him with tuition.  E.g., maybe they get 1000 off taxes and only wanted it to cost 5k instead of 6k.

I agree with others it might be a good time to file single even if it costs you a come of few hundred more each year.  Peace of mind has a price.

It was honorable to put that money in the college fund.  He would be a huge loser to take it from there.  That much in a lump can really build up if the child is still young. 


I posted recently about the Great Mac and Cheese Disaster of 2018, and I've been re-evaluating my relationship with Friend A. And I have no idea why she wants to continue our friendship. She hates my husband (she also hates Friend C's husband). She hates my toddler (she hates all small children, and also hates Friend C's daughter). Hate is her word, not mine, BTW. She dislikes how my home is set up. She dislikes that we use non-disposable plates. She openly tells me that I'm doing things wrong when I've always done them that way and had accurate results. At one point, she told me I was using my bread machine wrong! She criticizes how I practice our (shared, but really diverse) religion. I am raising my son wrong, but it's my fault he's autistic because I took antidepressants during my pregnancy. I should be hitting him instead of using the behavior modification techniques that work. (All 3 of us are child abuse survivors). I am taking the wrong antidepressant. I am taking my anti-anxiety medications too close together when she triggers me. I am rude for not coming to her house (the whole reason we were meeting at my house was because she wanted to get out more, and her dog is poorly trained and bitey). I used my spiritual practice incorrectly during my recovery from surgery, which I should have had sooner anyway (too bad I had to wait for my insurance to cover it). I should skip family celebrations so she and C can come over. So what is she getting out of this? I'm wondering if it's due to her SAD, or her other health conditions, but that can only explain criticism and snark to a degree. I am probably going to cut her out. Part of me wants to give her another chance, as the rest of our group is great. But it circles back to "why would you want to spend time and be friends with someone you dislike?" Where is the logic in that?
I did not know my paternal grandmother very well. We never saw her much, and the times we went to her place, it was for family gatherings were my FOO abused mainly my M, but also my B and I. My grandmother  played favorites in every place she went, and when once we traveled together for two weeks, tried to do the same with me and my brother. I was too old -17- and loved my B to death, so her tactic didn't work. She had nothing I wanted, and she antagonized my M with her treatment of my B. She also read my journal.

When she told me once that she loved me, it felt so strange, she didn't know me at all. How can you love somebody you don't know? I wonder how can your MIL claim to love your child. I know it's part of the craziness of PD, that they call love something different than we call love. But it is confusing, Dinah, and the confusion is dangerous for your children's future. I don't know what love is. I can't recognize it because my FOO called love something that is anything but. So when the time came and somebody offered me the same thing my F did and my FOO called love, I couldn't see the lie for what it was. I bought it as if it was the real thing, and here I am now with my soul in pieces.

You have a wise Spidey Sense, Dinah. It's telling you the right thing.
Dealing with PD In-Laws / Re: DH’s reaction
« Last post by Hope7 on Yesterday at 04:16:52 PM »
Thank you so much everyone for your very helpful replies.

DJCleo - yes I think they do this  because they were brought up by someone who could never be ‘wrong’ about anything so see deflecting blame as a necessary survival skill.

All4Peace - I agree pre-event planning is a great idea- generally I feel if I can keep busy in the background and leave DH to deal with NPDMIL as much as possible that’s a good deal for me, unfortunately I couldn’t cope on my own On this occasion and DH was annoyed that he had to be pulled away from attending to PdMIL’s every need in order to help out.  I will be giving him clear responsibilities next time as it’s just not fair that she manages to redirect DH’s attention from his responsibilities at his own child’s party in this way.

Bloomie - so much wisdom in your post. Thank you.  I too had a light bulb moment last year (although my relationship with MIL has been very poor for years due to my repeated attempts to draw reasonable boundaries) I finally went VLC after a particularly nasty episode in which she ranted at me on the phone for 3hours straight - lots of lies and victim type behaviour.  Every time I tried to defend myself or point out things she’d done to hurt me she twisted events round to it being my fault, denied or justified her behaviour.  It was exhausting and nearly broke our marriage (as DH is still in the FOG) and I finally had enough.  I think the lightbulb moment is when you finally realise that you have to put yourself and your own well-being first (even above DH or your marriage) as you can’t control what DH (or ILs) think and the only thing you can control is yourself, so need to do whatever’s necessary to preserve your own mental health.  So I privately decided enough was enough and went VLC (but without telling DH expressly as I didn’t want to have to discuss it any further with DH as that always ends in an argument).  Only a few weeks ago did in let DH know that I am not prepared to see them more than absolutely necessary (about 3 time’s a year).  He was disappointed and tried to persuade me to try to start over with PDIL’s as “everyone has their faults” and give them another chance for his sake.  I felt mean but my gut and heart told me I had to stay firm and I told him I just can’t do it any more and that it is in everybody’s interests that I maintain VLC with MIL and SIL. 

Somewhat disappointingly he seems to have decided to be very cold, almost rude to my FOO (who are normal, loving parents and grandparents) as a consequence of my decision to be VLC with MIL...however I figure that that is a small price to pay if it means I can remain VLC and MC with MIL and SIL.  In fact it gives me more justification in doing so.  One of the biggest disappointments in this whole situation with his NPD mother is how damaging and far-reaching her venom is (literally poisoning other relationships) but again, something I have to accept I can do nothing about if I am not to drive myself crazy trying to fix.

And yes, Bloomie my MIL is exactly like yours - sneaky, covert behaviour that DH will not see - eg I was snubbed and made to feel unwelcome in countless ways at PDSIL’s wedding but In ways that seem too petty to raise with DH - he just cannot see them for who they really are.  And yes also to conflict (albeit of the quiet falling out with people rather than raging arguments) being the norm of their life: she has zero friends and has alienated all her siblings and even some of her close family...but of course that is everyone else’s fault!

Thanks for all your great advice and sharing everyone.
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