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IT is so weird too because my gut is telling me that i am hurt, but my head and heart are telling me, “Well what if she was just joking or making a joke?” What if she was trying to he funny. I think humor can help these situations, my dad and i were cracking jokes all week to lighten the mood with each other. Mostly about what we could do (that we were never allowed to do, by her). Like we should redecorate her house, or get rid of her ugly chair, etc. just joking, never do it. And not trying to hurt her.

So i get humor. But why couldnt she have made a joke about something else?

I had asked her to go to the doctors for DAYS before i went out of town. She literally called me right before an event to ask for albuterol, knowing i couldnt get if to her. But she literally could have gone to urgent care right then to get it. The NEXT night she went to urgent care and they told her to go straight to the ER and she said no, and waited till MONDAY, even then she wanted to wait till tuesday and almost died monday night.

So if she was trying to be funny, it still hurt. And i dont appreciate the double standard of her being able to say whatever she wants and we have to sit there and smile and not upset her.
...I was sitting there with my aunt, chatting in her room today. And my mom makes a snarky comment, "All I needed last week was for you to give me your albuterol, but noOo, you had to go out of town and go to that event instead." In a sarcastic "no one cares about me" tone, lighthearted, but pointed.

That comment made by your mother is really beyond the pale.  I think it's unforgivable, really. 

But you have to decide what you are willing to put up with. 

My GC brother (who is probably a N) kicked me when I was down, figuratively speaking.  He kicked me in the gut, making a snarky remark that he thought was funny when I was at a very low point.  I refused to speak to him afterward, stupidly wrote him a letter telling him how he had hurt me.  Did absolutely no good as you might imagine.  Denied, projected, made me out to be a lame person who had the gall to think he would spend time comforting me, when he had so many other "fans" to give succor to.

I feel very bad for you.  Those words from your mother were horrible.  She really wanted to just gig you. 

I wouldn't put up with it.  You have to decide, though, what level of contact you can tolerate without harming you and your family.
Dealing with PD Parents / HPD Mom?/only child/deceased Dad
« Last post by soundandfury on Yesterday at 08:13:06 PM »
     I think my Mom has HPD?!  I'm at a breaking point. I do not want to expose my spouse, kids, or myself to this anymore.  I am considering cutting her off for a while.  Please advise... (apologies for length and lack of abbreviations I don't yet know.)
     The background: I'm an only child.   In high school, I found out Dad was cheating with a co-worker we knew.  After much struggle, I told Mom.  Mom made me her confidante, including details of Dad's sex life with the other woman.  It was then I realized she never had friends, only a few cousins she talks to when she needs their support.  Otherwise, she is radio silent.  Parents separated/nearly divorced.  Seemingly out of no where, Dad apologized and they reconciled.  During the separation, I did not speak to Dad, believing it to be his fault.  Before and eventually after, my father and I were very close.  My best friend from childhood thinks my Mom harbors resentment toward me for "ruining" her marriage. 
     Then he died unexpectedly when I was away at college.  While I cleaned out his office at work, I discovered he knew he had a medical condition requiring surgical intervention.  He told no one.  Before I could wrap my head around it for myself, and decide if/when/how to tell Mom, the family internist slipped up, presuming she knew.  Once I explained when and how I came to know (aka before her and- in a way- from Dad), Mom looked at me as untrustworthy.  To this day, I am unsure if he was so desperate to get out of the life he was in that he let it happen, or he played a fatal game of beat the clock... depends on the day for me.
     During those 2 traumatic periods, I excused Mom's behavior and lack of attention to my needs as processing/grieving/coping.  My live- in grandma became my de facto mother.  Had it not been for her, I would not have come out of either situation as a functional person.  Once she passed away, Mom's HPD symptoms went into overdrive, most obviously her incessant use of baby talk.   
     Topping all of that off, I had no contact with Dad's mother, brother, or sister for 20+ years.  Mom always (I mean always) told me they were cold, uncaring, jealous people who wanted nothing to do with me.  I am not sure if Dad was aware of her campaign.  When I had my first child, I decided to reach out to investigate (curiosity?) and see if there was anything worth saving.  Come to find out Mom basically forced Dad to choose between them and her/me, and relented a little only when the marriage counselor said she must (to paraphrase).  Dad maintained relationships with them in secret.  I've worked very hard with much awkwardness to re-establish relationships with my paternal family, which has been great, but it angers Mom.  There is little I can say or do that does not result in her being (insert negative emotion here) at me, where she feels I am 100% to blame, about that or anything else.  My maternal extended family has all but corroborated my paternal family's account and additionally told me their stories about her.  My uncle (Mom's brother) described Mom's systematic mistreatment of everyone in our family as their/my "time in the barrel."  His wife calls Mom an emotional vampire.  Once all of that info came out, I felt like I gained an entirely new perspective on my father's decision making about his health at the end of his life.  It was as if I grieved him all over again, this time, from his perspective.  After that, I researched her behaviors and recognized many as HPD (perhaps something else... I'm not a doctor).  Amateur diagnosis... check!
     In the last 3 years, I've become the focus of her hate and vitriol, and my husband by extension.  He has been nothing but good to her.  By her own admission, she badmouthed me to neighbors and co-workers (none of which I know, nor whose opinion I value).  However, she badmouths me to our mutual family, including at 2 wedding receptions.  She even went so far as to badmouth my husband and me to my mother in law at my son's pre-K graduation while I sat 3 seats away.  I did not know about that until afterward, thankfully.  It's like if she's not the focus of the attention, she doesn't want to be in the room.  She likes to play the widow card (while engaged to another man for 5+ years... that is a whole other dysfunctional situation) and the victim with regularity.  She also uses my Dad as a weapon against me when she is on the attack.
     Fast forward... I host Thanksgiving for my maternal family in a few days.  We all live in different states.  My Mom elected today to pick a fight with me about Christmas of all things, play victim, tell me I'm mean, the usual.  I do not want her to ruin the holiday.  I am not sure what to do.  Do I fake apologize to keep the peace for the sake of the turkey, or do I answer her latest email and potentially escalate things 10 seconds before everyone gets on planes and takes up residency in my house?  Is cutting off communication afterward drastic?  I've asked my mom to go to therapy (I have not mentioned my HPD hunches), but she only agreed during the 1 time I threatened to sever contact, then never went. 
     What should I do next?  If I'm writing to strangers in the Internet ether, I'm pretty desperate.  Best regards to all of you and many thanks for your insights.
Separating & Divorcing / Re: This May Be Long
« Last post by UsedUp on Yesterday at 07:58:16 PM »
Thank you all for replying. And for confirming what I felt, but didn't want to believe.

Now I need to figure out how to get out of this and find somewhere to move to, without losing everything I have. It's not much, but it's my whole life.
I feel so disgusted.
I️ understand your situation and often feel the need to listen when my PD mom has nobody else that will. So, I️ will let her talk and I have her on speaker phone so I️ can do what I️ want to do.  Also, I’ve played games on an iPad, organized a messy drawer or filed paperwork during these “listening” sessions. I️ give her the some feed back with out getting involved and she usually ends the conversation. Mostly because I’m not engaged in the drama. On the flip side, when I️ don’t have the ability, patience or I️ feel it’s crossing a boundary, I️ tell her I’m unable to talk right now and get off the phone as soon as I️ can. Hope this helps you. As our parents age I️ suppose we feel this need to be there for them which can bring anxiety especially when we know it’s not in anyone’s best interest to discuss a dormant topic. Take care of you first because we are the only ones we can count on to do so. :D
I'm so sorry, that comment was very hurtful. And you know Albuterol couldn't have helped, she was too far gone, needed a doctor. Perhaps she would have saved money by going to the doctor early on. This was all brought on by her poor choices. I'm sorry.
An Unsent Letter / Setting the record straight
« Last post by SmolderingDragon on Yesterday at 07:45:27 PM »
**Warning for language/offensive slurs**

(unintentional pun in title)

Dear M,

I’m so sick and tired of you constantly calling me a “dyke” whenever you feel like you need to take out your anger and frustrations on me.  And it’s so exasperatingly tiresome for you to keep accusing me of sleeping with CB and insisting that she is “a dyke” and that you “knew instantly the first time [you] laid eyes on her”.  For the record, just because someone is a Plain Jane and doesn’t dress ultra-feminine does not make her a “dyke”.  And I wish you would stop using words like that as they are highly offensive, but I guess that is exactly how you mean them to be when you’re spewing your venom.

For the record, the first time I saw CB I assumed the same as you, but if you actually knew her you would have found out that quite the opposite was true, in fact.  I sat through literally hours and hours of her bragging about how many men she had slept with and pointing out different guys who she thought were “hot”.  I don’t know of many lesbians who do that.  And the fact that she disliked gay people and bragged about getting a girl booted from the military under DADT, I can’t imagine a lesbian doing that to another lesbian.  Maybe I’m just naïve?

And about you always accusing me of “You spent the night at her house!  You slept with her!”  I know that it doesn’t matter to you how many times I tell you I slept on the couch, it doesn’t matter to you because you are stuck on this narrative that you have created to justify to yourself your abuse of me.

Ever since you started watching that certain ministry’s channel on TV about four years ago this anti-gay stuff started with you. I regret ever telling you to watch that one particular show on that channel. You never had a problem with gay people before.  Look at how tight you were with R and A.  You even told me many times that you went to that gay bar with them.  And how many parties did we attend at their house?  And what about your hairdresser J and his partner?  Don’t you remember how you used to yuck it up with them at their shop?  Once upon a time you thought they were wonderful.  Or what about all the other LGBT people we used to work with?  You didn’t seem to have a problem with them until recently.  Those people on that channel act like being gay is the worst of all sins and the root of all evil and you believe them.  Well, they are wrong.  The bible teaches that all sin is bad, but ironically the ones that God hates most have to do with sins that closely resemble the behaviors of Narcissists (Proverbs 6:16-19).  Being a N, you should tread lightly.

One of the most hurtful things you keep saying to me is, “You’re a dyke and you’ve always been one,” referencing how I used to be a tomboy when I was a kid.  Well guess what?  That’s directly related to growing up with you and dad.  You never paid any attention to me when I was child.  You weren’t interested in playing with me.  I remember you telling me many times to “get out of here and stop bothering me” whenever I tried to get you to play with me or spend time with me.  One the most hurtful memories I have is begging you to come outside with me to play catch (I was always so lonely being the only child in the house and not having kids in the neighborhood my age to play with). You reluctantly came outside with me, the annoyance and frustration rolling off of you, threw the ball maybe once, and then announced, “I don’t have time for this!” and turned around and marched back inside. Therefore, if I wanted anyone to pay attention to me or play with me, it had to be something that interested dad, hence sports and stereotypical “guy” things.

Also, your marriage to dad was such a rolling dumpster fire that I knew from a very early age that I never wanted to be married.  I remember Uncle L joking to me when I was maybe 4 years old at G and C’s wedding about when I was going to get married and I knew then with absolute certainty that that was something I never wanted.  I can’t remember ever having witnessed a loving relationship within our extended FOO.  So I guess that thought was buried within my psyche at such a young age that perhaps that is why I’m pretty much asexual.  That and the fact that you used to pound it into my head literally every day while driving me to school that men were bad, marriage sucked, having kids ruins your life, childbirth is the worst pain that you could ever experience, etc.  I can’t imagine why I turned out the way I did with that sort of programming.

And then there was the fact that you insisted on sending me to that ultra-legalistic, authoritarian, patriarchal religious school for 13 years of my life.  For boys the sky was the limit, but girls weren’t allowed to do hardly anything and had to fit into a tiny little box of expected gender roles.  I remember dad specifically telling me “boys are better than girls at everything”.  Is it any wonder I wanted to be a boy when I was a little kid?  I didn’t want to be treated as an inferior just because I was born a girl and I always felt the need to prove that I was just as good or smart as any boy.

I guess these things wounded me so deeply that that is why I never experienced any romantic interest in anyone.  I remember being in jr, high and high school and just not getting the whole dating thing.  It just didn’t appeal to me.  And, of course, if you didn’t express an interest in the opposite sex you must be gay, right?  Yeah, no.  Gay means you are sexually attracted to people of your same sex.  That does not describe me.  I’m not interested in having sex with women.  Not that anything I say here will convince you otherwise, because I was born defective, mental, just like my father, etc.  None of it had anything to do with you, right?
I am so, so sorry.

At one point my PD mom had been in a major diabetic coma. No one told me about it until days after it happened. I rushed to see her, though we had been no contact for some time. I was worried about her. When I walked into the room she turned to one of my brothers and said, sarcastically, "Now she arrives!"

She wanted to blame me for not showing up to something I hadn't even been told about.

Later she said the diabetic coma happened because she couldn't eat because she was so upset about how I was "ignoring" her. No matter what happened in her life she blamed me.

I hope you can take care of your tender heart, Dinah. What your mother did was cruel.  :bighug: :
Working on Us / Re: Dating...met someone....advice?
« Last post by Wild Lupines on Yesterday at 07:36:09 PM »
Well, I decided I'd try talking about it with him, to practice advocating for myself. It didn't go well.

I expressed that I need support around the abuse from X. He told me a story about an old girlfriend he had who had tried to rub his nose in her wealthy new boyfriend. It was clear he was coming at it from his life experience, which is fine, I guess. I told him I don't want revenge, it is more about my needs for support.

What troubled me is we started talking about X, and he said, "I really like X." It was like he didn't even hear me when I said X had been abusive. I tried to tell him more about the abuse, but I started getting upset. He said I was getting off track. Then he said, "enough about X," and wanted to change the topic.

It was an upsetting conversation and now I don't know what to think. My emotions feel very triggered, but I also know that may be because of my own rawness and newness to healing.

Hello, FOG. I feel that is right back where I am. 
Common Behaviors / Re: They hate even the slightest boundaries
« Last post by Wild Lupines on Yesterday at 07:26:46 PM »
I'm learning to set boundaries, which is worrying to frightening, but can also feel good. I've read enough on here to know I need to but it's not as easy as just saying / writing some of the suggestions I've got or others have got. I have a giggle at e.g. some of the things Bopper writes and really it's great that people can actually say and / or write these, but something's missing for me still. Enough stability maybe or just enough daring or ?? My T says I'm making progress and I'll make the appropriate decisions when I'm ready.

I don't have children. If I did, I might have moved faster. I know that sounds as if I don't deserve protection from FOO. It's a bit more complicated actually for reasons I'm not writing here. Besides those reasons, I'm already pretty damaged through my up-bringing, whereas if I had children of my own I'd want to prevent them ending up damaged like me. So I hope I would have moved faster on the issue.

I completely understand this. Being a mother saved my own life. I don't think I would have developed the same boundaries as an adult. I was able to do it for my kids. I still struggle mightily with feeling I deserve love and respect. But I was able to see my children did, so I was able to act.

When I recently got involved with a man with NPD, it took me a long time to awaken that what I was going through was replicating—at first subtly and then overtly—my mother's abuse. I have to be honest and say it wasn't until he started crossing lines and being hurtful towards my kids that I acted. In fact I had a sticky note above my desk for months that said, "Your kids do not deserve this." When I told my therapist about this she looked almost teary eyed and said that someday she hopes I can say that about myself.

Are you doing any inner child work? At first this was really hard for me, but slowly learning to take care of Little Me has been helpful in starting to see that I too deserve safety and regard.

Sending you big support—the damage caused in some families by PD is so sad, so awful.
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