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71
Hi Matty Bucket- yes, I can't help but be forthright with this, was so angry when I found out!!!!

It sounds like the covert stuff has already begun. the junk food- a biggie for lots of people- a really cheap trick to make your kids side with PD grandparents.

The leaving of dangerous stuff around- Whoa!!!  Yes, very likely on purpose. Someone on this forum posted a little while back about how their PD mum (grandparent) tipped a teapot of boiling water onto grandson- of course, could be an accident, but the person posting was not convinced. All to get attention back onto them.

The labels- yes. That is where the divide and conquer comes in and black and white thinking. One child is an angel, the other the sperm of satan.

My PD parents went on and on as did GC Nsis from the other side of the world about how DS was just like me (Cloudburst) and DD was just like her GC Nsis. My parents even called my DD by my sister's name, like all the time. Oh, she is so like her, her mannerisms, build, teeth, you name it.

Funnily enough, a close friend of the family commented how me and my H had cloned ourselves- DD was just like me, DS just like my H. In fact, DS looks the spit of DH when he was that age. But, my family had decided otherwise, so chose DS to be their scapegoat, DD their GC.

Also the endless buying of toys- just to trump you, make your child favour them instead of you. So juvenile.

How insightful to notice how your mum never interacts properly with your child. It's all just for show. Take a picture, post it on FB, look how wonderful I am.

Regarding how my kids have reacted to no longer seeing their grandparents. Well, my DS is still waiting for the other shoe to drop, as am I. But they have not contacted me once since coming back from abroad at Easter!!!!! i should be grateful, which I am, however, am still wondering what they are telling people. I am in the same boat as you, so is hard to advise.

DD was asking for I would say 6 to 8 weeks about PD grandparents. Not every day. Maybe once every few days at first, less and less, then every few weeks. Now, she hasn't asked for a while, altho she did become quite clingy. My parents had so treated her like a princess, it must have been hard to have that taken away. But the motives behind the facade of kindness is sinister. First it sets me up to fail- i could not replicate that level of attention and smothering. Second it drives a wedge between me and DD. Third it drives a wedge between my kids.

When she asked she would say, "Why do we not see (grandparent's pet names) any more?" or "Can we go and see grandparents?"

I struggled with this the first few times. My DS would look at me, actually fearfully at first. At first I just said, "Because we don't, I'm sorry," to try and fob her off. But that was obviously inadequate. Subsequently, I just said, "Because they cannot be nice to everyone. They made DS feel very sad, so we have decided it's best not to see them any more." I also said on other occassions, "Do you remember how grandparents made DS feel? We didn't like that did we?" etc..

I didn't say if they change or apologise we will have them back in our lives, as they never will.

It has worked. Kids appreciate honesty. My DD was part of some of the disclosures that DS made, and she backed him up.

No-one from NM's flying monkey brigade has as yet tried to reel me back in or question it.

But I know that the best thing to do should it ever transpire is to just say something like Oceans13 posted yesterday- "I guess it must have been some pretty extenuating circumstances for a daughter to cut herself off from her mother" and leave it at that. Just don't JADE- ie justify, argue, defend or explain.

I am quite sure my kids will not suffer any loss in the long term from not seeing my parents. They have already done plenty of damage. That can heal, in time. But not if they go back to being exposed to their weird crazy behaviour.

Stay strong, you know deep down what is best, guilt is just part of the FOG.

 :)




72
Committed to Working On It / Regrets & advice- do you have any???
« Last post by Trixie on Yesterday at 06:04:51 PM »
I'm really so intrigued by all of you who have managed to find the patience & resilience to stay with your PD partners for the long haul.

I have only just discovered that my BF probably has PPD & have since gone through the initial depression of the hopelessness of the situation, to feeling acceptance & that if I can make some boundaries & get him to stick to them maybe we can make it as a happy couple.

Pretty much the only symptom my BF shows is constant hyper vigilance thinking I'm perving on EVERY male between 18-50 (I'm 38)...these days he rarely actually accuses me & manages to keep it inside. I have for the most part stopped walking on eggshells by not looking at any men etc. So things aren't too bad except for the fact he refuses to go socialize with me & other people (except my daughter) ever- but he is totally fine with me going out with my mates without him...

So while one part of me thinks it's not so bad & if he can continue to internalise his paranoia's we'll be ok, the other part of me tells me that as we've only been together for about a year & have no intention to get married or have kids (I already have a daughter from previous partner) that maybe I should cut my losses & leave?

So how have u done it??  What strategies worked?? And do you regret staying? ? Do u think my situation shows signs of hope?
73
I suppose that like you, I wished my ex would have taken her craziness as she walked out as a sign she needed help.  And I wanted to write to her peeps letting them know all the symptoms she showed and how she lied.  I never did, of course.  But resolved to let her lie in whatever bed she made for herself.

Having them healed is important to us, bc we see how unhappy they are in their active pd state, and how that unhappiness is like a dog that pisses on every mailbox it passes.   I have to live, however, in the reality that says that even if she started now, there is so much to fix that maybe, in 20 years, she'll have a final moment of clarity before she passes into another active pd state triggered by the reality of being old.   There is no cure for them, only management, and only if they want it. 

God bless you, neversure, you did your best.
74
Parents' Discussion / Re: Really struggling with teenage son
« Last post by froggie on Yesterday at 05:46:24 PM »
Vesuvius,

My heart goes out to you. I don't know how much I can offer but maybe something from my story will help.

Like you with the exception that my wife was the abuser I have watched my son, now 19, deteriorate with only brief moments of sanity. He was called everything in the book, the worst of which was "The demon child from the pit of hell" which was her favorite. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair, but I won't for sake of time. The short story is this led to him dropping out of school at 16, retreating into the fantasy world behind the screen and three overdoses and two suicide attempts landing him in the hospital twice. At nineteen he's now in rehab, in fact I'm on the way to pick him up now  :tongue2:

His biggest problem is shame. He never heard from his mother; "I love you son." He never had the seal of approval from her that he was okay (I can't imagine what it would be like for a young man to never hear that from his dad... devastating). He was always the problem and when he felt like the punishment wasn't severe enough, he would act out so as to get it more severely. In your situation, at least when his father was home he did get that attention every young boy needs albeit in a very hurtful way. Maybe his acting out is to get what he inordinately longs for and has experienced since the age of three from his father. The biggest caution I would give you is only respond with love, approval, acceptance and affection.

The games were an escape for my son. It was a fantasy world where he was king and a terrible addiction. Just recently he had a very good job and at the time had about $1,000 in the bank then he got in a car accident and broke his leg that disabled him for about 8 weeks. One day his mother (yes, I'm still with her, thus revealing my sickness) triggered him by saying some really nasty things and within about 4 days he spent every last dime on this game and became one of the top tier players (because they saw how much money he was spending and wanted more). It made him feel great... but it wasn't real and once the money was gone he felt even worse.

I would encourage to to learn how to set time limits on your wifi for his devices. Let him know what you are doing and let him have some say in the parameters you set. The control issue here provoking another example; after my sons first overdose the hospital would only allow me to take him home if I promised to have him evaluated by the local adolescent mental facility. I did and it was then I started to come OOTF because the doctor who saw him said my wife more than likely suffered from NPD (she has since been diagnosed with BPD/AVPD/OCD and dissociation). He made me promise to get him counseling but admonished me to let my son be part of the process. My son's life had been so controlled by her that he didn't know how to function normally. I bet your son would learn to live within the limits you set together, although it will still be a battle.

Your son needs you and he needs a good male role model (good luck on that last part). If you have a brother or good friend who might be willing to spend some time with him maybe that would help??? I've learned with boys that they talk better while in motion. Whenever Nick would get to the place where he would explode I would look at him and say; "Let's go for a ride." (Sometimes we would take a walk but he always felt the neighbors could hear us so this was more difficult for him) We would just drive round and I would just let him talk, not interjecting with anything heavy, not offering any advice (at first), certainly not any rebuke and eventually (10-15 minutes) he would come around. 

I really hope this helps. I have so been where you are and it's exhausting. YOU need support. You can't help him if you are not in control. Go get some counseling for yourself (maybe you are, I just don't remember reading that here). Get a network of friends who know your situation that you can lean on. Your son has suffered emotional as well as physical abuse... and so have you. On this site you will find good stuff on emotional abuse and I would encourage you to read up on CPTSD, also on this site.

My parting comment; Stop blaming yourself! You did the right thing and got him out of the situation, that took some major courage (more than I got  :aaauuugh:), Kudos to you! ...now go get some help, you need it.

Good luck, you have friends here.       
75
Dealing with PD Elderly Family Members / Re: The Waiting Game
« Last post by Spring Butterfly on Yesterday at 05:33:05 PM »
I like this one too: "It's not my job to prevent a crisis if a crisis is in the natural course of events."

Farfromthetree -   Yes!  Or also, if crisis is a direct result of stupidity.   

 :yeahthat: Love these!

 :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
76
Quote
"Emotionally BLACKMAILING her," "threatening the MORAL ORDER of the universe," "to know I'm not ABUSING her"<these are all related to your conscience. "I don't know why this tactic works so well on me" because most fundamentally CB "parents" hijack our conscience from a very, very early age and use it as a tool of manipulation against us to devastating effect. ACs (adult children of Cluster Bs/CBs) are acutely sensitive to issues of "fairness," "doing the right thing" etc. for good reason: We've taken so many Guilt Trips we'll never live long enough to use our Frequent Flyer Miles. Guilt is an exquisitely painful emotion that is intimately tied to another equally painful emotion, shame, both of which AC's experience from our earliest memories/experiences. We will engage in all kinds of mental/emotional shuck-'n-jive in an effort to flee from experiencing them-AGAIN.

My CB "mother" was clearly "conscience impaired" (I smile at this expression because inevitably-) the part of her "conscience" that was "impaired " was the part that had to do with treating others with respect and dignity as human beings as well as lacking veracity. (I doubt she could lie straight in bed.) As a result I-and I notice many other ACs-developed a hyper or self-lacerating conscience as a compensatory mechanism. Our CB "parent(s)" manipulate our conscience in service to their own agendas, some what analogous to a physical auto-immune response where the body's immune system turns on it's own healthy tissues/organs. Our need for heathy adult autonomy and boundaries is subsumed to the CB parent(s) predatory/parasitic agenda. As a result our conscience is turned against us in a manner that is injurious to our psychological (and physical) health.

I can't find a "mind-blown" emoticon. But that's just what happened. In a good way, tho!  :yes:

Thank you, thank you, thank you, nuffstuff!

-ITN-
77
Chosen Relationships / Re: Why do we stay in these toxic relationships?
« Last post by Empty Shell on Yesterday at 05:28:13 PM »
I have read that they find your weakness and play on that.

 :yeahthat: So true.

I have literally given him a road map on how to hurt me

I did the same thing with PD xGF. Still paying the price for that mistake to this day.

They're sick in the head. Who gets off on hurting others?

Agreed 100%.


78
The Welcome Mat / Re: Newcomer
« Last post by GSPMom on Yesterday at 05:12:57 PM »
Thank you for the kind words, Spring Butterfly! On reflection, it DOES seem that during courtship I was being 'interviewed' to be his emotional punching bag. It didn't seem so at the time; it seemed more that someone was interested in ME. Now I know why his ex-wife says he was such a remarkable boyfriend!
79
Chosen Relationships / Re: Why do we stay in these toxic relationships?
« Last post by noquarter on Yesterday at 05:03:05 PM »
Perhaps it's because the PD conditions us by their demands. 

In my case it was his insistence on total fidelity, which I thought not unreasonable in a long-term relationship as It's something I'd expect too.  However, once you've accepted this condition and they've got you hooked it then seems to give them licence to treat you as they will.  Sometimes their mask will slip, such as the time he stormed out for no reason (as far as I could see) and on the way out he called me an "Ugly old hag", which was probably about 2 years after he met me - and he pursued me  :stars: He is far more physically attractive than I am so I did wonder why he'd been on his own for many years.  Now, sadly, to my detriment, I know why.
80
"Emotionally BLACKMAILING her," "threatening the MORAL ORDER of the universe," "to know I'm not ABUSING her"<these are all related to your conscience. "I don't know why this tactic works so well on me" because most fundamentally CB "parents" hijack our conscience from a very, very early age and use it as a tool of manipulation against us to devastating effect. ACs (adult children of Cluster Bs/CBs) are acutely sensitive to issues of "fairness," "doing the right thing" etc. for good reason: We've taken so many Guilt Trips we'll never live long enough to use our Frequent Flyer Miles. Guilt is an exquisitely painful emotion that is intimately tied to another equally painful emotion, shame, both of which AC's experience from our earliest memories/experiences. We will engage in all kinds of mental/emotional shuck-'n-jive in an effort to flee from experiencing them-AGAIN.

My CB "mother" was clearly "conscience impaired" (I smile at this expression because inevitably-) the part of her "conscience" that was "impaired " was the part that had to do with treating others with respect and dignity as human beings as well as lacking veracity. (I doubt she could lie straight in bed.) As a result I-and I notice many other ACs-developed a hyper or self-lacerating conscience as a compensatory mechanism. Our CB "parent(s)" manipulate our conscience in service to their own agendas, some what analogous to a physical auto-immune response where the body's immune system turns on it's own healthy tissues/organs. Our need for heathy adult autonomy and boundaries is subsumed to the CB parent(s) predatory/parasitic agenda. As a result our conscience is turned against us in a manner that is injurious to our psychological (and physical) health.

I well remember the first time I took a concrete, behavioral step to limit my CB "mother's" ability to reach out and poke me at will: Ohhhh! The fear! The guilt! My conscience went innumerable rounds with my intellect. I consider that decision made decades ago the most life-affirming and life altering, as significant as the decision to marry my late husband. Blueshades, congratulations! You are now in the process of claiming your life.
 (I'm the old widow broad in the back of the room wildly clapping, cheering and urging you on! YYEESS!!)


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