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Working on Us / Re: first day of work!!
« Last post by JohnnyBoy on Yesterday at 11:38:24 PM »
the kids are with her dad right now, but hes talking about signing them back over to her, go to talk to the kids anyway. My job is actually going very well, somehow I am officially going to be go time guy, cause somehow they decided I was good enough to be be trained on the only 4 way laser. In other words everybody else is working with one maybe two parts at a time, I'm working with 4 at a time. Then my trainer decided to run his mouth to his friend on the next laser, who happens to work with the heaviest part in the building. tells him I can throw them all night, so I come back from luch and the guy challenges me. How many can I stand to move. he thinks ill give up on one.....I do 10!
Chosen Relationships / Re: How Long Have You Pretended?
« Last post by desertgirl on Yesterday at 11:00:33 PM »

I am so sorry about what he has put you through..how are you dealing with his cheating on you? I blamed myself initially and tried to change myself to be what I thought he wanted so he wouldn't wander again! I am sad to admit this, but it's true..I stopped though a couple years ago, and started to slowly regain my sense of self and not blame myself for him choosing an affair when we promised each other that was the one thing we would never do, that we'd talk to each other if it came to that point..

Don't beat yourself up about not kicking him out right away after him cheating..I always thought I would do that too! My h thought for sure I was going to, but when I didn't, he was surprised..he did seem very remorseful about hurting me..but he ended up having a secret friendship with a woman I was leery of right after he had affair with a different woman! and a year of lies about this woman..lies are more damaging that just admitting your mistakes..

I would recommend that book on codependency and I am reading another one that I heard about here, "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft..very good book..

One day, my friend, I know we both will not be pretending anymore! As we grow more aware of what we have allowed, and get OOTF more and more, we will see our way out of here, I believe that..Reach out to your loved ones, it helps so much..I did this recently and what a breath of fresh air it was..I need to keep it going with the reconnections I've made..I'm rooting for you!

 :thewave:   :bighug:

Well, pretty much dealt with the cheating only by saving evidence of it to use for later and then eventually confronted him about it and he actually denied it.  I mean, how can you deny the fact that there were pics/texts between him and this other woman and I could have access to them if I wanted?  The "other woman"s husband called me and he saw the pics and yes, they were not PG rated pics either.  So do I have an actual image of him and another woman in the act?  No.  But I do have the other evidence that goes along with that.  And yet, have I kicked him out of the house? No, like an idiot I sit here and accept his halfhearted explanations, him saying that he did things (dating sites, meeting people) partly because of how our relationship was going and he felt rejected.  Blah, blah, blah, still not a reason to go out there and actually meet someone at a hotel and engage in the act.  So for that, I feel like a jerk for still being here.

Yes, hope one day soon we will both say that we are out of these draining, soul-sucking relationships and are thriving on our own.  I try not to feel guilty about putting my needs first in this case and knowing that he will be very upset when I let him know I am done, but I cannot put someone else's needs in front of my own ever again.
DH's sibling, who's about the file for bankruptcy, is divorced and moved in with NMIL, sent an email announcing changes to NMIL's Will:  DH's brother will receive the bulk of NMIL's estate.

BIL is way out there in the toxic realm too. An emotionally healthy sibling wouldn't rub such a thing in a fellow siblings face. Nor would an emotionally healthy sibling condone such updates to the will that purposely exclude and alienate others.   

It's feels like extreme enabling if you ask me.  That she told me she "had to talk to DH about her Will," after she'd already talked to him about her Will the day before, suggests she wanted me to know that she was going to punish DH based on the stuff that happened during her visit this Spring/Summer.  Wow, just wow. :stars: :stars:

The call to you was a covert, but very obvious means to inform you also!

I've been through similar crap w/ my toxic and dysfunctional parents in the past. But, even when I was in the FOG, I didn't condone the changing of the will BS talk. I knew it was just being spiteful on my parents part and would tell them I didn't want to hear about or be apart of it. Conversation over. Little did I know then that I was doing the healthy thing and not giving my parents the drama and supply they needed. They truly wanted me to side with them and pity them for the so-called petty slights (figments of their imagination) my siblings had done to them  :stars: :stars:

The real gut buster is that my parents don't even have a legit will. Ironic considering how many times in the past they'd use it as a ploy to keep their offspring subservient, compliant,and utterly obedient. Yet, they still go on and on about the money they'll leave when they pass. Just grandiose narc talk and total exaggeration. Reality is they'll be no $$$, for my father has refused to plan for how my mother will be cared for when he passes. She'll likely go straight to assisted living for she's incapable of living on her own, so what ever remains of the estate will go toward her care.

Personally, I'm at peace with the fact I'll never see a dime when my parents pass. I view it as tainted blood money and I don't want any part of dirty mafia money! Once upon a time I would have kissed the Don's ring, but I'm out of the family business so to speak....LOL
Dealing with PD Siblings and other Family Members / Triangulation
« Last post by eyeofthestorm on Yesterday at 10:47:05 PM »
So tired of this.
I've an older cousin who lives across the country, and he and I are very close as confidants. Brother has been attempting to bully him all along, since before Mom passed, that Cousin needs to hear "his side too" -- to put Cousin in parent-figure,  mediator role. When that didn't work,  Brother told Cousin he was being fed bullsh*t by me.   When that didn't work, Brother resorted to vicious name-calling and telling Cousin he was dead to him. (This from Brother who has lost his stepson, wife and Mom in the last 5 years.)
And time and time again it's been instead of Brother dealing directly with me. (So who really is the spineless wimp?)
He's started up again, telling Cousin there's been a "great divide" [with me] and that he hasn't dealt well with grief.  He probably thinks that's an apology but Cousin doesn't think so.  He's right. No accountability for the verbal mudslinging towards him.
Cousin emailed me back and asked if I wanted him to reiterate that it needs to be between Brother and me. I said no. Brother needs to know that,  genuinely feel it inside himself.
Meanwhile I'm just trying to stay in the moment and not shadow-box when there's no Brother in the picture.
Cousin has had some boundary and self-assertion issues -- I'm proud of him for holding his ground. And grateful for his respect.
Family dynamics -- it's what makes PD stuff so much more complicated.  Let's see who else of the greater clan we can bring into the mix. 
Separating & Divorcing / Uncanny ability to discard at a whim
« Last post by sjvalleygirl on Yesterday at 10:46:49 PM »
Having a realization about exNPDh (and perhaps NPD's in general) at the ease of discarding very important relationships in his life. All depending on who he feel is more valuable at that moment. Over 23 years he discarded me over friends, family, coworkers, even ex gf's.....but now to see it from the outside validates it was never about me. This is what he does. To anyone.

ExNPDh recently discarded his gf over our kids. Of course it instinctively feels like a 'win' for me and logically I want to make sure my kids are being respectful human beings. He's discarded our kids for gf more than once which led to DD calling both of them out on the unfairness she's felt the past 10 months gf has been around. DD can be very vocal and 'in your face' when she's upset. ExN can't handle confrontation so when things got heated and gf packed her things & left he sat there dumbfounded. She stated she won't return until DD apologizes for 'being so rude'.

I listened to both kids recount situations they felt left out & ignored by their dad. Everything they say fits exN to a T. I totally get it.

Now exN is hoovering our kids like crazy, spending time & money on both of them..showing up like never before since our separation. Based on past experience this won't last and I'm sure gf will be back in the picture and the hoovering will flip to her and discard to our kids.

It's the craziest & most heartbreaking scenario to witness. All I can do is my best to keep growing healthier & stable for them.....and me.

I'm always grateful to be able to share this stuff here with all of you. I get to sort my thoughts out and maybe gain some feedback, validation, and not feel so crazy about it. Thank you!!!
Dealing with PD Parents / Re: Is this emotional abuse?
« Last post by RachelCaroline on Yesterday at 10:40:26 PM »
sorry you are going through this GettingStrong. I agree with everyone that this is abuse and that the hurt you've felt as a result is good evidence.

It is legit for you to express your feelings and I'm sorry that it had such negative consequences for you.
I know I also have a hard time seeing my own experiences as clearly as I see those of others and I can struggle to identify abuse because of this at times as well.
I find self-compassion a good tool because of this. It reminds us that we say things to ourselves sometimes that we would never say to others. Often we think of this in terms of negative self-talk, but it can also be denying our experience to ourselves, or even saying we deserve it to ourselves to rationalize the hurt we experience in relationships and persuade ourselves to stay in them, sometimes even when doing so is harmful.
Good luck!
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / the other shoe is dropping
« Last post by RachelCaroline on Yesterday at 10:30:13 PM »
I received a call from my mother today. It was the first time she tried to contact me since she cut off contact with me in late May.
I didn't answer the phone, as I saw it was her number. I didn't even panic when I saw the number, which was unexpected.
She left a message just saying she'd been thinking of calling a while, wondered if we should try speaking again, thought if I were willing we should, and that that was all she had to say.

I knew it was possible that she might reach out again. We've had pauses in our relationship in the past, but never a formal breaking off like this time. But I didn't expect it so soon. I actually thought I had blocked her number in my phone, but turns out I had just deleted her as a contact.

Anyway, I thought briefly about calling just to make it clear that I would not be re-entering the relationship, but realized this wouldn't likely go as I imagined or serve me in any way. I don't think I could successfully explain to her why I wasn't willing to re-enter a relationship with a parent who terminated our relationship via an answering message 3 months earlier. And I just don't want to fight. I don't want to pretend I've forgiven or forgotten, or have to try to explain that not being willing to be in an abusive relationship anymore is a good thing, rooted in the fact that I now know better and value my worth more, and that that doesn't actually mean I'm full of the latent anger, fear, anxiety or rage that has previously been projected on me.
I'm glad I didn't call.
The thing that is actually getting to me is that I'm so calm.
I didn't get tearful, or angry, I didn't feel my stomach lurch or get sweaty or hot, I didn't do much of anything. I thought through how the conversation might go, what i'd want to be able to explain, realized it wouldn't work and was just like - meh, not going through that.
Do I even have to clarify that it is my preference to remain NC if I'm not the one who initiated it? Is this a decision I can wait on and only act on if more attempts at contact are made? I'm glad I have clarity about where I think the relationship is and will be (which is pretty much as it is now, NC). Do I owe her the same clarity?

Wondering what some thoughts are. 

Welcome to Out of the FOG. I am sorry to hear that you are going through a rough time. Spending the day crying is hard, but you are grieving a huge loss right now. Allow your self to grieve and get therapy if needed and things do gradually get better. It won't be perfect, but it can be significantly better. I still struggle with wishing my family were emotionally healthy, but I realize now I can't change them.  I feel like I am now better off emotionally than I was five years ago, and in a couple of years I know I will be even better than I am now.

Quote from: OnTheRoadAgain
Do they just use all their ammunition against you at once? Or is the smear campaign long lasting?

I am low contact with my enFather and NC with my siblings. It has been five years now and I am still experiencing their smear campaign.  This would decrease if I decided to go NC with enDad. Hang in there and keep reading this forum.  Everyone here is very supportive.  You will get stronger and gain more knowledge every day.
Dealing with PD Parents / Re: Sometimes I feel like a wimp...
« Last post by Is This Normal on Yesterday at 10:19:45 PM »

I never thought about projection, which is kind of odd since I see projection in a lot of her otheer criticisms of me. I guess having seen her temper and her tirades, it's hard for me to believe she could be feeling wimpy or weak. But maybe that's one of the reasons she rages. People who are truly empowered don't have to resort to that kind of behavior. She has professed feelings of weakness and victimization, but they seem to be a function of her waif routine. I have to remind myself that there is a real human being with real feelings behind the exaggerated emotional displays.

In thinking about it a bit more, I realized I was witnessing some triangulation with a couple of coworkers. They were trying to draw me in to it. I think I did a pretty good job of staying detached and pushing it back off onto them. I was just trying to keep my head down and do my part of the job. Fortunately, I don't normally work in their dept., so this was an isolated thing. But I think it triggered me a bit and I was experiencing a mild emotional flashback, feeling like a little girl surrounded by unhappy, angry adults and trying to do the right thing and lay low so as to stay out of trouble. In the past I've found myself feeling weirdly triumphant for being able to navigate high-conflict environments. Now I feel sad and then angry. Screw that. Let them all eat each other alive. I'm out cuz I have better things to do with my time than try to suss people out and figure out what I have to do to stay in the good graces of the people in power.

Thank you for your encouragement, Kay. I hope you're right. It's just so slow. But I guess it has to be. I can't seem to deal with anything other than the low, slow setting right now.

Working on Us / Re: Feeling like a dufus at my new job
« Last post by sonya18 on Yesterday at 10:19:17 PM »
Thanks Ohboy77! I will certainly make that my new motto! ha ha!

Thanks tommom, you are right most people are not the crazy-making. I hate this paranoia I have product of my upbringing. Sorry that this happened to you too. I try and try to be nice to myself but after most of my life listening to my inner critic (that my dysfunctional family implanted on me) it takes a LOT of effort, time and mindfulness to disarm it! I have to learn to be kind to myself in a way  that my family never was to me. :'(
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