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In our temporary orders, Halloween is like any other holiday.. it alternates every other year...

Works for me.   I will not be spending it with the PD.

With much respect, what experience do you have with Stockholm syndrome?  It is massive abuse and yet they are convinced that they can't live without this person and defend their abuser. It is deeply sick and unhealthy behavior in which they have convinced themselves they are happy. There is no discussion with "the partner" that will ever bring about anything.  The abuser is a control freak and is not capable of rational thought (think psychopath).  And the abused are constantly convincing themselves this is true deep love and nothing is wrong and they are happy, they will not seek out therapy. They will occasionally admit things aren't perfect, and these are the conversations I have with them - not started by me - by them.

Do you understand the bond that occurs in abusive relationships? The more abusive, the stronger the bond even. Do you understand they lies they tell themselves to make the behavior of the abuser "okay?" Do you understand there is dissociation and brain washing involved?  And I don't even particularly start the rational conversation, they will start it but then the dissociation kicks in.  They are struggling on the inside but can't admit it.

So, you are suggesting that I should give up and stop having relationships with my brother, my business partner and my friend?  The relationship they have with the controlling women is affecting my relationship with them.

Yesterday, I had a completely rational nice conversation with one of them. We did hit a little bump when started telling me how I should approach something at work which I completely disagreed with and he had ulterior motives for wanting me to approach it his way.  I did not bring up the ulterior motive, knowing it would cause friction (and it was coming from the controlling woman who was behind it).  I just stated that it didn't make sense and I would do it my way, and reminded him that he didn't like it when I told him what to do.  Then we discussed other projects we had been working on and he told me that I could no longer be a part of them. First he lied and said that he never said that I could. Then he just said not to question his judgement (this again was the woman controlling him that was blocking me from projects I have been working with him on for years). Again I refrained from bringing up the real cause and said that I would go find projects elsewhere (despite numerous years of work).  He then got mad at me and told me that he shouldn't be involved with me at all and that I was telling him what to do and what to think (none of which was said, and I challenged him to scroll through our conversation - it was a chat - and to find where I had done any of that).  He is doing me wrong, knows it and yet has to do what his controlling woman says. This creates huge discord in himself and becomes completely irrational, makes up stories in his head to justify his actions.  He is trying to control me, to please his controller and is feeling guilty about it all at the same time. 

With much respect, interfering in the relationships of others brings nothing but trouble.  You can be there as a sounding board (or not, if it gets to be too much to handle) but I might consider refraining from "having rational conversations" with them so that they can "see the light".  If they are unhappy, the person that they should be having a conversation with is their partner or a therapist.
How do you guys handle Halloween?

Our divorce agreement stipulates we share the evening with DS5. Ugh. I think it's odd that NPDxh would even want to, that any hostile exes would want to spend that kind of time with their ex. Ostensibly it's "all about the children" but I really don't think it is. I think that's a good cover but it's actually a way to insert and assert themselves into your space. I think whatever good is gotten from seeing your kid trick or treat is utterly obliterated by the bad of spending two hours with someone you despise and who you know despises you. In my case, NPDxh supposedly thinks I'm also mentally ill, so I would think that would sweeten the pot in favor of not wanting to be anywhere near me.

Chosen Relationships / Re: Desire vs. Divorce
« Last post by 1footouttadefog on Today at 02:00:01 PM »
This is just gross.  He is likely projecting big time about the extra marital sex meaning you are at risk.

Now he wants a clause giving him a quilt free continuation of the same dynamic.

You are right thst no matter how much you "perform" acts it will never be enough.

He has indicated this himself by projecting onto you his little lecture about a lack of desire. 

Just flip this stuff around and he is telling you all you need to know.
Chosen Relationships / Re: Is this really abuse?
« Last post by Hikercymru on Today at 01:57:59 PM »
Hello, I am so sorry that you are going through this. Your H sounds like my ex bf. Very covert,  changeable,  confusing and anxiety inducing. Read more about covert pd. It took me 2.5 years to get out. Because he always got around me and would do fantastic things sometimes. He was so fabulous at times. But he was big trouble really. And he would say similar things and overreact to criticism and just basically make me feel like I am walking on egg shells. But I didn't realise what was happening. Read,  get a second opinion,  AND LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. 
I found Natalie lue 's baggage reclaim website very useful.
Chosen Relationships / Re: Desire vs. Divorce
« Last post by Oneness on Today at 01:39:03 PM »
You know he will never change. If you really have had enough of this torture, then you should act....for your sake and the kids. They are innocent and should not be exposed to any of this toxicity anymore, do you agree?
The Cafe / Remain Calm
« Last post by Sometimestheskyisblue on Today at 01:29:38 PM »
A poem I've written for when I suddenly feel panic creeping up on me but I can't stop it. Feel free to share if you want to
Remain Calm
As it begins to build
As the buzz grows larger
I try to ignore it
As liquid fills up my lungs
As I fall deathly silent
I try to remain calm
As hands begin to shake
As tears spill
I try to breathe
As panic washes over
As words try to escape
I try to to come back
But Iím afraid Iím already gone
I don't think I'm explaining myself well. It's not that seeing a happy family made me wish I could have a happy family, too. I mean, yeah, I thought that, but that's old news. I've dealt with that pain before. The new pain was remembering how HARD I had always--since childhood--tried to make it work. I overlooked soooo much obnoxious and crazy and ungrateful behavior, so much dangerous toying with my relationships with my husband and children, and I had cheerfully put in so much hard work and sacrifice. Really cheerfully--no resentments and a clean slate for them to defecate on every time they came. I had forgotten how hard I had tried. I had forgotten how genuinely I loved them and wanted to make them proud of me. I unhealthily allowed them to say and do almost anything with no long-term repercussions for bad behavior. But the one time I drew a boundary that I would not, could not, move...all my love and forgiveness was forgotten by them and I am ejected from the family.

I guess I'm not really saying anything profound here. For some reason, remembering how hard I tried makes it hurt more to realize how one-sided everything was. I deserved better. I was not the bad daughter they made me feel like I was every time I tried to make them stop the crazy train. I was a good daughter. I was a good daughter! Typing these words makes the tears flow...
So many pd families appear to thrive on chaos and conflict. It's like we're cats who have to grow up with a pack of dogs. Not a great metaphor but I couldn't come up with another.

When we visit my narc relative maybe twice a year, he clearly wants to start a fight. We leave there saying "never again" but have settled on meeting in public where he won't cause a scene. Not with us at least. And his wife is a lovely person so we're really getting together to see her.

I wonder lightworld, is your mother too demented to know if some flowers are from you if you send them for this occasion? It's a small way of saying you're with her in spirit.
Chosen Relationships / Re: Inferiority vs. superiority complex
« Last post by Revath on Today at 12:51:34 PM »
These posts resembles to my life too. I am married to him for 24 years. Initially I never understood this. He has this superiority complex to me and my family. He even considers himself above everything and everyone. He always portrayed me as dumb and his sister with with same qualifications considered as smart. He always enjoyed putting me down in front of my family and friends. I lost my  and doubting my own abilities to continue with my job. I lost my job and my health after living with him for these many years. Always blamed me for all his failures. I have been accepting those accusations. Even one day, he told me to take the medications that I give to my patients. I work in a mental health hospital. He distanced all my relatives from me. At the same time, he kept connections with his relatives and portrayed me as a bad person in front of them. He calls his family and relatives from work. He doesn't want me to know anything. Also, he never introduced me to his work friends too. He never took me for any work parties either.  Recently,  It came to my radar as  one of his cousin is diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Now I prefer to stay away from him. When he is not  at home, I am so happy. I am living far away from my siblings and relatives. He even monitors my online activities. He can see in his phone whom I called during his absence. He installed security cameras to monitor my movements. Since I don't have a job, he is refusing to buy a second car for me. Basically, putting me in house arrest. I am so scared of his verbal abuse and do not say anything. I read all the articles in the toolbox and slowly trying to get my strength back  . I am looking for a job to get some coverage for my counselling cost. I started writing journals and reignited my religious practices.
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