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I find that this can help to dodge being hit by their missiles and it helps to spread the crazy around.
That may sound horribly unfair to others,


On the contrary, in the workplace, it's a lot fairer than the group being able to dodge responsibility by allowing most of the toxic waste to be dumped on one person.  The sad thing is that these people often do find someone else.  To me that is what is not fair.

Also, imho, any kind of group that requires scapegoats is dysfunctional, and the group needs to take responsibility for recognising that fact and changing whatever needs to be changed.  This is a group problem and it's not okay.  In this instance the PD may be highlighting/exploiting weaknesses in management, organisation, communication etc.  Healthy groups foster the health and growth of all members, unhealthy groups cover up for unhealthy ones, and that adversely affects the well-being of whole group in the long run, imo.

I agree that companies who allow this behavior are incredibly dysfunctional. I am working in one now and it's really quite amazing the impact one person can have on the group. It's totally not ok.
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Oh boy this is a hard situation to be in, especially at a new job, but I'm glad others see this too and you aren't alone. This definitely sounds like some BPD issues going on in my opinion. Lack of boundaries is one key factor. Just reading what you are telling us is making me cringe.

I honestly can't understand why companies keep these types of people on the payroll when all they do is cause problems for the other employees.
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Separating & Divorcing / Re: Putting an end to it
« Last post by HiddenFlower on Today at 10:08:56 AM »
My son is asking for H. I'm very depressed which is not a feeling I'm familiar with. I'm fighting thoughts of thinking it's better to love my messed-up H than be alone and miserable struggling. I don't have the energy to ever trust another man.
Hey sparrow. It is common for kids to ask for the other parent. When I left my XH, my daughter asked for him every day. She only talked to him once ever after I left him, because he refused to answer my calls with her unless he could also talk to (and abuse me) in the process. At that point I was only texting and emailing him and refused to speak to him on the phone. It is heartbreaking and hard, but it does get easier, and if you handle it right, in a year, it won't be as bad. What helped me with her is that we briefly talked about her feelings, I let her know her dad was not available at the time, and I diverted her attention to something else. It's going to take some time for your son to process this change.

I understand the struggling. When I left my XH the last time, I was struggling so much I actually became homeless. But I was at the point at that time that I had enough that I was willing to sleep under a bridge than be in the same household as him. But it took me leaving and coming back many times to get to that point, because I missed our comfortable life and someone there at least part of the time to take care of the household burden. But each time I went back it was worse until my life was in danger and I had to leave to save myself. Try not to give into these feelings. Just know if you go back, it will be worse.

As far as another man, it's best to "fix your picker" before even thinking about dating again. And waiting awhile would do you good. IIRC you are in your 20s, so you have plenty of time to find another mate if you choose to do so. My mistake was that I didn't fix my codependency and other issues before going into the dating pool again, and I attracted someone who was pretty much like my XH. I've been working through my issues while waiting to leave, and I hope to work on them more in depth with therapy once I'm able to leave my BF.

Just take it one day at a time. Put one foot in front of the other and handle each crisis as it comes. Work through your issues and help your son out. It's hard now, but you will make it!
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Chosen Relationships / Re: New here - NPD husband
« Last post by October99 on Today at 09:59:19 AM »
Gulliver, yes it was glaringly obvious that I was on my own to get through the infertility struggle but I was so absorbed with getting and staying pregnant I didn't care...I lost sight of things going terribly wrong in my marriage. I am older than him and my clock was ticking. It was sad really in retrospect. My friend drove me to the IVF transfer because uPDH was too busy. He went to only one u/s appt...the one where we found out it was twins.

I was very sick before, during and after their birth and he didn't care. My mom took care of me and helped with the twins...until he convinced me to move away from her. Then I got really sick and could have died. My aunt saved me. I made plenty of excuses until he turned on the kids and they started having anxiety.  The OOTF I came with a bang.
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Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: We made up and boy she's good
« Last post by moglow on Today at 09:51:48 AM »
Jennyslife,

Please don't beat yourself up over what you call a "slip."  Surely by now there's been more than enough of that?  Relationships aren't written in stone and there are no sure fire definitions other than those with which we feel comfortable.  You don't have to choose no contact or limited contact, other than whatever works best for you.  In all honesty, you don't even have to explain it - not to us or to anyone else. Granted, if you waffle back and forth between the two without any apparent reason, it'll cause confusion both for you and with your parents. 

Taking a break can be explained as exactly that, with the added explanation that you will contact her/them when you feel ready.  That's not silent treatment [which they may accuse you of], but rather you taking much needed time to step back away from the emotional outfall after a confrontation/outburst.  I've found that breaks from mommie dearest truly help me, never really felt the need to define what it is or why it is. If she doesn't like it, I'm sorry for her, but she'd like it a lot less if I allowed it to continue.

Quote from: Jennyslife
It's funny that if I saw someone else post this type of post I would most certainly feel terrible for what they are going through and think they were silly being so hard on themselves but I'm having a hard time giving myself the same grace.

Heard, sister - I'm right there with you on that one!  I'm quick to jump to defend others and give them grace, as you say, but somehow don't seem to think I deserve the same.  :blush:  It's a process, and like so many others, it takes practice.  Start by putting down the sticks you're beating yourself with.  Put them down, break them up, burn them in a bonfire.  Destroy them!!
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Future Goals / Re: Deleting social media to truly start a new life?
« Last post by Bloomie on Today at 09:49:14 AM »
pippilangstrumpf - Speaking from my own experiences I deleted my FB account several years ago and it was one of the most important self care moves I have ever made for myself. It was part of my cutting off as many inroads to my life and peace of mind as possible and an attempt to have authentic, intentional interactions with those in my trusted circle. I have never missed it.

For me, it wasn't just the saboteurs and passive aggressive posts of PD family members, it was the false sense of connection between family members and friends that I felt it fostered. The idea that we can stay in touch and know what is going on in another person's life that we say we truly love and value by going years and only seeing/commenting on nothing more than their FB posts - not actually making the effort to contact them directly in some way -  was something I had found myself buying into in a  way that didn't reflect how I want to live in relationship with others.

I have found for those that live at a distance that I don't want to lose touch with that email, good old fashioned phone calls, face time, texting to an extent can be a sweeter and more personal way to stay connected. Just my thoughts.
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all i have to add is that suicide, or attempting suicide, or threatening suicide is always the responsibility of the one threatening, attempting or committing the self-murder. pinning it on someone else is never accurate.
you even saved him. now it's time to save you -
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Many thanks.
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Hey Saltware,

I think relocating is a luxery that most people simply just don't have. As I read this thread it reminds me of safe houses that are set up for domestic violence (DV) victims because of this very problem. I can't help but think of PD as emotional violence and often find myself using DV as a parallel metaphor.

In DV cases, abusers take control of money and decisions, like where they live, as a means to control their victims. I could easily see this happening with PD. PD'ed people control their victims with mind control, money, kids, isolation, etc... just like DV perps. In DV the need to relocate in order to break the power and control the abuser has over the victim is absolutely necessary, so safe houses have been built and maintained to harbor them like a sanctuary. No such place exists for the emotionally abused.

I think therapists and the helping professions are limited by ongoing knowledge and understanding that is yet to be articulated, common practice, and sometimes just a plain lack of understanding of what it is truly like to live in these situations. Victims are often groomed and brainwashed into thinking they are powerless and can never escape, and the suggestion to simply move across the country can feel brutal to someone who feels trapped, doesn't feel confident in making new connections fast, or doesn't have money.

At the end of the day it's about having the independence to chose NC if needed. NC is a personal choice, but it's no choice if one cannot do it financially, socially, or in other ways. It is only a choice if obstacles to it can be removed. Sometimes that is a better focus for a therapist then the ultimate cut off. It might be less "barbaric" if a therapist focuses on the obstacles to moving, going NC, or anything else the client needs to do but can't, rather than just presenting what seems like a false choice to a disempowered person. Sometimes the obstacle is just the mental belief that we "can't." 

The bottom line is to find ways, no matter how measured or limited, to get away from people who foster unhealthy dependence, try to exercise unhealthy control, or cripple and erode us in any way. As long as we are exposed to personal erosion we weaken and lose our stamina and resilience, something we need to survive the genuine hardships that come our way. I'd rather use my strength and agency to battle a drought, the loss of a job, the death of a child, then letting it be consumed by a PD for no other reason than it keeps them whole at my expense and feed into drama that gives them a boost.

So for those who cannot move, maybe the question needs to change. How can they get distance from abusive behavior that by it's very nature punishes distance. In some cases NC is the only answer. If family harasses and stalks, there are local police and legal means that can be difficult but might suffice instead of a complete move. Sometimes people can make simply a social move. There are many social circles in one city. If a social circle is poisoned by one bad apple, the whole barrel might be ruined, so without moving, a person can seek out new social circles.

I can honestly say, that I've been blessed with the ability to go NC and my heart breaks for anyone who, due to being single or of limited means, cannot make the clean break that I have from harmful people. When faced with helping friends or others in this situation, I think it's helps to focus on what little power they have to make changes, even if it's as simple as attending a new church in town, or like in your case, moving to a nearby city and then returning. Emotionally, that's as big as a major move across the country, because, I'm guessing, it had the same impact, distance.

The warmest wishes to you and those you empathically feel for. Feeling and being trapped is probably the worse thing any of us can feel. 
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Dealing with PD Parents / Re: Don't want NM to touch me
« Last post by Coyote23 on Today at 09:26:29 AM »
I feel a lot like all of you around touch, except I get periodically needy and long for her hugs. But when they happen I find myself cringing. I can relate so much to the part where Starshine said that she can't be around her or talk to her. Both of those make me feel edgy, panicky and sick. I very much used to cringe at my father's touch before he died. I am grateful at this point that I love to hug other people, like my FOC and friends.

I also grew up in a big extended family where you were forced to kiss and hug everyone on goodbye and hello.

Try not to feel guilty!! It's textbook PD to repulse others and then gaslight/guilt them for feeling/acting repulsed.
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