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Unchosen Relationships / Re: Should you tell kids about NPD?
« Last post by evvy on Today at 04:31:44 AM »
That's really helpful both of you.  I wanted to use the word 'abuse' and instill in them the fact that they don't have to tolerate it and encourage them to have strong boundaries.  Bullying is really good too - especially for our younger child.  Thank you x
Why did she cheapen my passion?
Because if you have something she does not, there is less in the world for her. Plus, the very simple fact that she could TRY and kill it. Invade your space. Take something off you.
Mine did this to me. I know this from decades of experience.
Take care of yourself.
Personally, I like the label BULLY when talking with kids.
Family Services in your area is a great resource, as well.

Once you get some help, you'll feel much more stable. It's a scary thing to leave, so my hat's off to you for taking this big step!

I decided to go back with him.  And we went to our first couple's counseling yesterday. If things go wrong again I'm out.
Working on Us / The Low Ebb
« Last post by ComfyJeans on Today at 03:52:42 AM »

I thought I was getting better but I'm not. In fact getting much worse. Just taped up all the windows in my house with brown paper because I want a safe cave to come home to. Somewhere prying eyes cannot see me, where I can feel safe. I am bereft of energy and hope now and I just want to lie in bed all the time and weep and sleep. Absolutely no-one understands how trapped I feel in this life, this shell of a body and this terrible experience which I never asked to be a part of. I lost the energy to live about 3yrs ago, I am animated but I no longer live. I dont eat, sleep often and have no contact with people outside of work. I feel exhausted whenever I'm in public and cant 
help but see others as people just wanting to suck the very life out of me. With their incessant demands and selfishness. I have no future of love to look forward to. None at all. It makes everyday hollow and meaningless, another day to survive and sleep again.

I have ruined my voice with constantly screaming in frustration and hopelessness. I dont know what to do. Contact with people only makes me feel worse.
Unchosen Relationships / Re: A question for everyone...fighting fair
« Last post by Camerlenga on Today at 03:52:31 AM »
I'm starting to get a sense that calling us "emotionally strong" is their way of trying to manipulate and reward us for being unquestioning automatrons.

I think so too. It also means that they don't have to help us with anything, either, because we're strong and therefore "don't need it". My mother says this to me all the time too. I think with this idea, she can justify it to herself when she makes no efforts to support me, since I'm so "strong" already. With this mindset she gets to keep her internal status quo as the only person who has any needs, the only one who is weak and sick, the one who should get all the attention, and never the other way around.

We're tough, so we don't need anything. Makes it easy for them, doesn't it?

I couldn't agree more.

My extremely abusive father did the same to me too. He put it in the words "You will make it (=in any respect and under any circumstances)".

The context he said it in was EXACTLY when he told me what he had given to a sibling and what I wouldn't receive.
It indeed is their reasoning not to give us anything, emotionally or materially.

calling us "emotionally strong" is their way of trying to manipulate and reward us for being unquestioning automatrons

Yes, that too. My father and his equally narcisstic and abusive second wife used that to see me as a threat to their plans of keeping one child dependent and controlled to act in accordance with their wishes, to leave the cild alone that posed no thread to them and to disown and disinherit the two uncontrollable children that posed threats to their wishes.
Unchosen Relationships / Re: This is a very validating article
« Last post by Camerlenga on Today at 03:41:17 AM »

I admire how succinctly you have put this:

what I'm dealing with and how destructive it is for me to stay in an abusive relationship.

The other thing that the meddlers never comprehend is that when you've come from a lifetime of abuse, is that you don't have the same set of defences that someone with a happy loving family has.
I know that my elderly cousin has an entire network of love and support and a lifetime of happy memories - so if someone was to set into him in their substance fuelled rage, he'd more than likely be able to brush it aside and bounce back.
I can't do that, simply because I don't have what he takes for granted every day.

It takes a lot of work to keep yourself going when you've come from an abusive family, essentially when we leave we're running on empty & the battery is about to die.
We leave just before they suck the last of the joy and love and happiness out of our lives, the way you'd pull away from a vampire just as they're about to suck the life out of you.

People from happy families go out into life charged up, shored up, buffered and buoyed by the support systems around them.
We start out in life drained and exhausted, struggling just to be normal after what we've come from.

Because Nons have never experienced that, they simply have no idea what we're dealing with or how exhausted we already are from dealing with a PD.

This sums up my life quite well. Thank you.

Therapy helps a lot to come to terms with that. One slightly negative side effect it has though:

So far I've seen only my father as the abusing one. Well that was very obvious even for one deep in the fog.

What I'm beginning to learn now are my mother's little cruelties like keeping on telling me how wonderful my sister was and attributing all positives to her even when they came from me. Never seeing my feelings and knowing when praising my sister would hurt me. Well, I'm still struggling with "did she do that on the purpose to hurt me or just to comfort herself?" (There were very good reasons for the latter.)

Thank you for sharing the article, PP, great read, although I can't imagine any son really doing what this example of a husband did.

Speaking of cruelties: My MIL has never appreciated any of her daughters in law (has been smearing incessantly ) and now that she is very ill all the polish of civilisation has come off and she is openly rude:

She said to me in reference to all her daughters in law: I don't know how women like this (=who are not sufficiently eager in doing home-chores) get men like that (=her invaluable sons).

My recent progress in coming Out of the FOG has luckily enabled me to not get into freeze mode and quietly rage and fume like decades before, but to detachedly note the rudeness for what it is. Big success! Now I'm working on some "rude" answer.

Hope I'm not being off topic. If yes, please excuse.
Unchosen Relationships / Re: Should you tell kids about NPD?
« Last post by Emeraldgem on Today at 03:37:40 AM »
If the grandparents aren't currently in the children's lives, I wouldn't have a talk with them about NPD.  If a question is raised you can say something like, "Grandma and Grandpa made some poor choices in their behavior and became abusive and it is never ok to be like that, so we don't talk anymore."
You CAN let them know it is not okay to abuse but without going into other details they don't need to know until they're much older and can handle it.   
Unchosen Relationships / Re: Should you tell kids about NPD?
« Last post by evvy on Today at 03:11:38 AM »
My DH wants me to add that he wants to explain the behavioural aspects of NPD but doesn't want to attach a label to it as attaching labels for young children is negative.
Unchosen Relationships / Should you tell kids about NPD?
« Last post by evvy on Today at 03:04:22 AM »
Should we tell our children (age 12 and 8) that their grandparents are NPD?  Quick update - we have been NC with my un N MIL and FIL for 2.5 years after 14 years of abuse, culminating with her hitting me.  Yesterday my DH responded to a text from MIL asking to meet him.  He went along and it went 'well' until the end when she threatened court action to get access to our children, at which point he left.

The whole situation has been a no-go area of conversation with the children for the past 2.5 years and now we want to explain to them more what's going on.  I am firmly of the opinion that you cannot explain their extreme behaviour without setting it in the context of NPD.  But my DH is against this and  doesn't want me to 'label' his parents as it's not fair on them.

I think this is because he hasn't fully accepted the extent of their NPD and holds out hope that they can be genuine and there's a slight possibility that they could apologise (and mean it).  I couldn't disagree more and think that they can never change and they can't love anyone, not properly. I am very anxious to protect the children from their abuse and never ever want them to have any contact with them again.  My DH however, wants to 'keep the door open'.  I think we have to draw a line under it or the effects of their abuse will go on and on for generations.

So - is it advisable to explain (especially to the 12 year old who's v bright) about NPD?  I couldn't understand my ILs behaviour until I knew about NPD and blamed myself.  I want my children to know about it too but my DH is dead against it.  What should we do?
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