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Thanks so much for your replies everyone; what an eye-opener this has been! I'm really shocked at just how graphic some of your parents have been, urgh.

The promiscuity and infidelity is interesting; my uNMIL cheated on her now-ex numerous times during their relationship, but she always blamed him (and then her sons did, too). Again, it was all about how she has 'needs' (both emotional and physical) that he couldn't meet: he was distant (no wonder given the years of abuse she subjected him to), he didn't earn enough money (she was on a higher salary when she worked; but she had long periods of unemployment. She also blew through his 20k savings (which 20 years ago was a pretty decent amount of money), got him into debt by trying to sustain a lifestyle she couldn't afford, and expected him to do 100% of the housework despite the fact he worked much longer hours. But of course, he MADE her cheat, he's the bad guy! SMH.

Another thing I've noticed is that when my OH and his brother do try to shut her down, she'll use emotional blackmail: they're uncaring, they should want her to be happy, etc. It's just crazy.
Have faith in the way I raised my children?  That's a really good point.  They have far better boundaries than I do. Must have done something right.   ;D  They were always allowed to have their secrets, but I refused to expect them to keep adult secrets when they were young.  I am still treating them like teenagers emotionally.  Guess that's what you call a "flea". 

They have always been encouraged to choose who they trusted for themselves, in an attempt to break this dysfunctional cycle, hence the two youngest really have no idea how the family works. 

Springbutterfly, my mother does this too.  I have tried to use it to my advantage by suggestion she may had adhd as I was diagnosed with it last year, in the hope that my mother will decided to seek out an assessment.  If she does, you can be sure she will see the psychiatrist I did and that would ensure she found herself with a proper diagnosis!  Now I am sounding as manipulative as she is  :stars:

Suffering from everything your daughter suffers from is a dreadful affliction when put with your own health issues!   :aaauuugh:

Daughter, I too have high functioning autism so like your son, I always recognised the dysfunction but felt obligated, no matter what the emotional effects were for me.  For those with asd dealing with pd people is even more difficult that for others, due to our "rules" 

My parents are not getting any younger and perhaps if I tell my sons that its better for everyone that no one has to deal with unneeded stress, (mainly me and the boys) they won't feel guilty and torn between the older generations.  Given half a chance my parents do try the divide and rule with them, but certainly the eldest has realised this is bullying, so it has had the opposite effect on him than intended.  Would this be an unhealthy way to deal with it? 

Luckily the hospital tests were all clear, so back to the gp.  Thank you all for you imput, I have lots to think about and you can be sure your time and effort with me hasn't been wasted.  It will help keep my little family emotionally healthy

Hello LongTime

I'm so sorry that you were married to a lunatic!  I'm so happy that you are free!  I'd say, in my very limited experience, that you were his "trophy"' you made him look good and gave him stability.  Plus the control thing of course. 

I have to say that he was unfaithful.  In your heart you know that.  His accusations against you were designed to cut you down where it would hurt you the most.  Your personal integrity.  He has/had none and he wanted to convince you that you didn't either. 

My daughters are 17&15. They clearly see that their father isn't "right".  My youngest said it is as if he is the child and they are the parent.  You are a very admirable strong upright person.  Your children will come to, if they do not already, see you for who you are.  Your character will speak for you and your children will continue to love you for it.  They are more aware, even at a young age, than we give them credit.  If he is twisting their minds now, in time, they may see the truth, as you continue to do what is right and maintain self control. 

Do the kids see a therapist or counselor?  Or maybe have someone outside of the family they trust (and that you trust) that they can speak to freely?  In his playing victim he is rousing their sympathy.  He is an expert.  They see you as strong, you don't need sympathy.  He could also be making them feel guilty.  They naturally don't want to disappoint him, they want him to love them.  You and I know he only loves himself.  They don't know that yet.  It is taking me a long time to pull myself up Out of the FOG and "half of my life is over" as my kids like to remind me 😉.  They may speak more freely to someone other than you.  Just a thought.

Chosen Relationships / Re: Feels like a devaluation/split coming on
« Last post by FoggyNight on Today at 08:17:41 AM »
Thanks Julie for the perspective.  No worries on the harshness.  I posted because I knew I would get an honest review.  Since I tend to dismiss most of the craziness, sometimes I fail to see the dark undertones.  In this case, it was too dark to ignore.  I saw "the look" in her eyes.

She doesn't like hearing about your situation at work because she can't be bothered. She has nothing to gain by listening to your problems and being a sympathetic ear. It's not about her so it's not interesting.

There is a sadistic witch that has always lurked behind her beautiful eyes.  The more alcohol you get in her, the more "it" comes out.  Very cold, insincere, uncaring and very VERY cruel.

This is the part of her that while I can enjoy it from time to time, it's when it doesn't stop inflicting harm that stops being sexy and attractive.  It's that part of her BPD that screams "I'm going to make you suffer!"

What's sad about the review is that my attendance suffered because of her E'ffing affair!  I was depressed and literally in shock.  I couldn't function, and some days I had to call in because we were home "fighting", as she would call it.
Thank you Long Time!  :) Yes, I am in turmoil.  I am recovering from 14 years of dealing with a passive aggressive - not sure if that's a PD but if it isn't it should be.  I am a shell of who I used to be.  Thanks for the welcome, it is healing just to be 'seen' - I haven't felt noticed in at least 5 years so little kindnesses can make me very emotional.

all the best, and I'll see you around the board!
Unchosen Relationships / Re: How to stop myself from helping?
« Last post by Spring Butterfly on Today at 08:06:54 AM »
So many of your comments in this topic has been so helpful to me. I also was raised and groomed to be the codependent family fixer of all problems. It was expected, it was taken for granted, it was what I did. As a result much of my own estimation of my value was based on what I can do for others. It didn't help to hear "where would I be without you" and to feel like I was useful. But like others I finally realized all I was doing was enabling and stopped engaging and uPDm doesn't like that one bit. She Hoovered me back I for a while but I'm so done.

Learning to disengage, to ask a question or two about what they might do about it, as in "have you talked to your therapist, doctor, husband, etc" I learned the value of not being so "helpful" and useful to people.

Balancing this in healthy friendships has been a challenge but I find most friends appreciate just a hearing ear and I might perhaps occasionally offer a question to get them thinking about their problem differently but I am terribly careful about not offering solutions or advice. Sometimes if I'm specifically asked for my opinion I might give it but there are times I declined to say for my own mental well-being especially if I don't feel very strongly one way or the other.
Chosen Relationships / Re: Trying to keep strong
« Last post by FoggyNight on Today at 08:03:56 AM »

When I divorced my exW, I had to put a block on my phone just for her.  Random text messages or occasional phone calls would set me on edge, like someone racking finger nails on a chalk board.  Trust me, it helps.  I know it feels cruel at first, but it is your sanity and mental health at stake.
Separating & Divorcing / Re: Taking control in a dream- a sign?
« Last post by Misskriss31 on Today at 08:02:48 AM »
Your daughter sounds profoundly amazing! I can see where her intellectual ability would fill you with so much pride but also hurts because she is able to grasp a situation that is so painfully complex. Our children should never have to experience these things, but it is so great that she is able to share her thoughts with you. Continue to nurture that bond of comfort and communication. My oldest is 14 (and at that weird teenager phase) and he still comes to me to express his feelings or just talk.

As far as the dream......that's awesome! It's a very cool thing when your subconscious starts to regain control. What I find really interesting is that you continued to be the same person in your dream. That probably sounds odd but you were a loving partner, dressed up for your husband, full of emotions.
Chosen Relationships / Re: So now I get to live in my car. OMG!!!!!
« Last post by FoggyNight on Today at 08:01:25 AM »

I'm sorry for you and what you are going through.  You've been through a lot, and I hope you are feeling like the storm clouds are beginning to disipate.  You are an incredible and noble woman for how far you are willing to go to support your husband.  I really hope he sees how much you value him as a person, and that he quickly learns to appreciate the opportunity you are holding out for him.  I hope he gets into T and they help him see and appreciate the gift he is being offered, from the sounds of it, for the last time.

Stay safe and take care of yourself.
WaterRising (and MissKriss31):

Welcome to OOTF!  Happy to hear that you found this site, and that you "landed" somewhere that you finally feel you can have answers.

You will find so much information here, as well as many, many people who you will see have lived through the exact same experiences.  (It's eerie...it's like we are all married to the same person sometimes.)

I was married 22 years, divorced since October.  I agree with MissKriss31...where was he the past 14 years when he had the opportunity to treat you with kindness, respect, and amicability.  It feels like they (PD's) wait until their world is falling apart to promise change.  At that point, though, it does not seem genuine, it feels like an attempt on their part to manipulate.  And if you have 14 years of manipulation history, what makes you think this is different?

And like  you, mine would always threaten the marriage, not with words, but he would take his wedding ring off after an argument...leave it on the counter, table, etc.  I suppose a sign for me to interpret.  For years I would beg him to be rational.  But the last time he did it, he threw his ring off, and said "tell the kids tonight we're getting a divorce."  So I did.  Same reasons as you...it was the last straw for me, and I saw it as an opportunity, so I reached for it.  If someone cares that much about you and the relationship, they WILL NOT use it as a threat.  Maybe he used it as a "bluff," but then again, you don't use a marriage as a "bluff."

Document everything...start communicating via emal...it's easier to save that way.

Keep a daily log...a diary...of any interactions with him, and quote things he says.  You will go back and read it much later, and as you become more healthy, you will recognize signs of his sickness.  Doing so actually helps to keep things in perspective for you.

Don't talk to his family....they will want to suck you back in, and will downplay everything.

If you're weirded out by something, then listen to that instinct.  You have lived with this man for 14 years, so your gut is talking to you.

His being nice is an attempt to hoover you back in.  Look up that, and  many other terms, in the glossary section of this site, and you will be in for an eye-opener.

I also agree with MissKriss31, the worst is yet to come.  If you read through the hundreds and hundreds of threads and posts, you will see that to be pretty standard operating procedure when splitting up from a PD.  It's nothing short of a trip through hell.

Two excellent books:
"Why does he do that?  Inside the minds of angry and controlling men" by Lundy Bancroft.  Gives you an understanding of how he thinks, which actually helps you in the long run. 

"Divorce Poison" by Dr. Richard Warshak.  I am just reading this now; it is all about parental alienation.  Don't be surprised to see him start to turn the kids slowly against you.  I hope it doesn't happen to you, but again, it's par for course with a PD.

Are you in therapy?  If you can find a good therapist experienced with personality disorders, it would probably be very helpful for you to have that outlet.

I am sorry you are going through this, but keep posting, come back here often (it really is a great source of support!) stay strong, and see you on the threads!

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