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Separating & Divorcing / Re: Going NC or not?
« Last post by Rubytown on Today at 06:57:49 PM »
Hi worriedmama,

What a terrible situation for your daughter!  I'm so glad she has you in her life.

I concur with atticusfinch about trusting your instincts and intuition (and your daughter's of course).  "The Gift of Fear" helped me very much to realize how dangerous my situation is and take appropriate action.  We underestimate our own sense and guidance on these things.  I would prefer to overreact a little than look back and wish I had done something different.

I have no thoughts on the best approach, but NC seems best in most cases.  Only you and your daughter know which approach is better in this case.  Could you look at the texts for her to sort out some you might want to keep for future legal problems?
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Bloomie - It took me so long to realize it was OK to process these awful parts of my life.  After leaving home at 18, and marrying a violent, vicious ASPD ex-husband, I quickly swept that under the rug too.  That double whammy overwhelmed me until I began to actively seek help.  You are amazing Bloomie.  Thank you so much for your kind response.

Unnamed - OMG we are like twins.  Instead of older, my nm was a married teenager when I was born.  She also begrudged every dime spent on me, but went to bingo five times a week.  I am also nc for 9 years.  Thank you so much for your response honey.  It means a great deal to me.

MotherMoon - Your reply made me think of something a psychiatrist wrote years ago.  Why is it that the most selfish people immediately say they must vent and speak their mind after a therapy session, when they have done that all of their lives?  Those of us who have been victimised by pds struggle mightily to put our interests first ever, but they don't need any prodding.  Thank you so much for sharing.  It really helped me a great deal today.

Wilberforce and Realloveishealthy - Thank you both so much for the validation.  It's a good day when someone understands and cares the way you two have.  Big, big cyber hugs.
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Me too. Without this message board I would still think I was a bad girl. I've come a long way from that! And just like jade, I imagine a big reunion with hugs all around
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Thanks, Gary.  I struggled with that part of the analogy because, of course, I want to help "save" him from the fires in his life.  But I am coming to realize that this "house on fire" thing really is each person's issues, things we are responsible for individually.  I guess the house in the analogy is our self.  You can't save someone from himself.
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Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: The apology email
« Last post by Is This Normal on Today at 06:34:08 PM »
Thea,

I got what I thought was an amends from my unBPD mother a few years back. But it ended with, "but I NEED to have a daughter who doesn't hate me."  I have done a lot of distancing and deataching from her and my FOO throughout my adulthood. That is what she's interpreting as hatred on my part, ad when I was young, I was very enmeshed with her and we were very close. At the time she said this I felt guilty and confused. I mean, I did hate her, have hated her often

But what I really hatwas her behavior, which was so damaging and crazy-making to me. And that's what makes her amends and apologies so hollow. The behavior doesn't change so the harm keeps happening. Lets say I burn my hand on a hot stove. The stove then apologizes for burning me, but continues to be red hot. Who can blame me for choosing to keep my distance? My mother, apparently.

I am not nc with her, just lc. Funny thing is, she's so angry about the lc, but it's that very practice that enables me to stay in relationship to her and have some positive feelings. If I tried to go back to the way it was before, I would indeed start to hate her again in very short order.

I am so sorry for what your mother is putting you through, but I'm glad you're sharing here. I hope it helps you ad much as it's helped me.

-ITN-
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Fairtuckychick,

Good to hear from you and hope you and the baby are doing well. Your argument sounds sound to me. I think it's good that supervised visitation is already part of the mix, as it shows your ex's parenting is already a question mark. And I also think the fact that your ex is so blustery and confident, but ultimately clueless to the point he claims to not even know what he signed, works in your favor. He'll either sound like an idiot in court for professing to not understand the document he signed (or maybe he'll go the victim route with it, but either way, I don't think the court will have much sympathy) or he'll get so pissed he'll show his true colors right there, all wins for you.

I don't agree either with the current mentality that the most important factor in custody is for the child to have both parents in his/her life (i.e. the topic of "parental alienation"), if it means that child is exposed to abuse and/or neglect. Unfortunately, that's not what courts think, and parental alienation seems to be the overriding theme in court these days.

I would tread very carefully here. I don't believe the phrase, per se, was brought up in my situation, but the concept was very strongly hinted at and by her own admission played a big part in our guardian ad litem's decision to largely grant NPDxh custody (my lawyer told the judge he just flat-out rejected the report in its entirety and the judge agreed to give us more time. In the meantime, my NPDxh proposed a settlement that gave me custody, but that was him, not the court).

......... The card I played in our custody battle was credibility. I started out with allegations of abuse and I stuck with them and cited them as reasons I did not want NPDxh to be around DS. ....... NPDxh, meanwhile, accused me of even MORE allegations, and more egregious ones, including but not limited to, the fact that he thought I was MENTALLY UNFIT to parent, and was a dangerous driver in whose car he feared for his son's life. But when the GAL came around, he professed to want to be one big happy post-divorce family who wanted to co-parent and encourage the HELL out of a relationship between me and DS.

Which, of course, made his entire affidavit either lies, or meant that even though he thought I was mental and a reckless driver out to kill our son, he had no desire to protect his child. So the "court" and GAL did not too good a job separating fact from fiction.

With your ex, I would only bring up the very worst instances of neglect/abuse, and always in terms of what's best for your child, who, you might want to point out, is still so very young. And never speak of your ex with rancor, even if he deserves it and it's justified. Always speak with compassion, because of course you want your ex and your son to have a great relationship, but unfortunately (shakes head sadly), you want your son to be safe. I also would avoid putting anything in terms of trying to "protect DS from ex," which is exactly what you are trying to do, but that language is a PA trigger.

And Oh - My NPDxh to this day threatens lawyers and courts when he doesn't like what I have to say, and he, too, was soooooo smart about the legal system (read: not really). Haha. What's even more amazing is that after he threatened me and told me all about how courts work and how I couldn't leave, etc. (wrong wrong wrong), I got an emergency temporary custody order for our son and permission to move out of the marital home with him, which I did while NPDxh was at work without telling him. Bye bye, NPD! And even after I did the very thing he told me the courts "would never let me do," he continues to try to threaten me with legal moves, even though I'm the one who got the leg up on him in every single regard, and in every single hearing in court.

So remember, their bark is usually worse than their bite, and also, their bark is pretty much BS.

Fingers crossed for you in court. Take care and stay strong  :bighug:
- ANL
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First, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Grieving is so complicated and sometimes difficult, especially with difficult family.

Consider your feelings first. What do you want to do.

Short phone calls of condolences? Your own ceremony for him, to grieve your loss? Attend the funeral? Not attend the funeral? There are many ways to do what would be best for you to process the loss. There is no right way to grieve your step father's loss. :hug:
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I find this topic extremely fascinating too!


To me and my non expert opinion in order for any of this to occur the most important factor is the persons strong personal desire

Not just a "would like to change some things" but a "I have to or else",  desire.
.
That without that no matter how many therapist shove new thoughts into our brains that nothing will change to any positive degree.

That makes perfect sense to me Gary... I've noticed over the years of working with drug addicts that the most important factor in quitting seems to be the desire to quit.  Without the desire non of the other criteria matter.  We even have a program titled 'gottawanna' (says it all really  ;))


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My brother just called. My stepfather of 37 years passed away overnight aged 85. I've been NC with my NPD mother for four weeks on request of my FOC and my own need to stay out of harms way. My mother did not let me know he was in hospital or expected to pass away, nor even that he has passed. My brother is my only contact. Other siblings are BPD themselves and have mostly been NC for a long time. One BPD brother is recently back on the scene and is even more toxic than my mother, but since they have now joined forces, the old patterns of scapegoating me have resurfaced. This is my main reason for going NC after the last attack.

What do I do now ? I know if I call; I'll get the invalidating tone and she will play the victim - she was actually horrible to my stepfather so who knows if she's feeling much other than excitement at having a drama to be the centre of.

The funeral - I feel ill at the thought of attending with BPD siblings there.  I've suffered from complex PTSD for most of my adult life with lessening severity as I've worked hard to recover and function well. This is a challenging moment I've been dreading.

Does anyone have advice on how to handle this ? I have a lovely husband and 3 beautiful adult children. Thankfully they understand and are supportive but ultimately I'll have to decide myself what to do now.
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Separating & Divorcing / Re: Going NC or not?
« Last post by worriedmama on Today at 06:10:24 PM »
Hi atticusfinch,

Thank you so much for taking the time to give a reply to me. It soothes my nerves to interact with people who have been there. I deeply appreciate it.

I was reading another thread today where "The Gift of Fear" was mentioned over and over again. So I went and ordered it from Amazon right away. It will be here Thursday. Thanks for encouraging me with this resource.

Overall, I have been working in my own life to really, really listen to my gut instinct and believe what it is telling me. Your response to me confirms that I should continue to do that.

Thank you again.
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