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Chosen Relationships / Re: WAS ANY OF IT REAL?
« Last post by 1footouttadefog on Yesterday at 11:42:43 PM »
Agreed, once you get past the initial few paragraphs, it becomes a valuable read. 
Working on Us / Re: Not sure where this topic belongs...
« Last post by 1footouttadefog on Yesterday at 11:39:42 PM »
Who are the people in your neighborhood Mr. Rogers? 

We see you learned a new word today, and many others in the past.  Maybe its time to take the sweater off, hang it in the closet, make a nice cup of tea and Learn some abbreviations.

Then the people in the land of make believe can be bold and brave when the little train toots its own horn.
:) xxxx Thank you.
There is another way of shutting up the flying monkeys - it's a bit more ruthless & direct, but it works incredibly well to shut the worst of them up.
'Well, Jane is a big girl and if she had a problem with that she could talk to me about it. As she has not, and she says everything is fine, then I'm going to assume that you've been misinformed.'
If they start up again with their nonsense, I'd just ask them straight up if Jane has asked them to act as her personal intermediary to solve her relationship problems and watch them squirm when they have to admit 'No'.
And then repeat Point 1. i.e. 'I have every confidence in Jane's capacity to communicate and resolve her problems. As you don't seem to share my confidence, perhaps you need to take that up with her.'
End of topic, move on.
There are some people in the world who just like to set up problems between friends. I call them 'firestarters' - they really aren't happy unless they're causing problems, and the only way to deal with them is to throw water over their fires, straight up.

Trust me, you'll get better at this over time.
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: New Here - My Story
« Last post by Tootsie Roll on Yesterday at 11:37:49 PM »
Hi Golden.  I'm new here too.  After reading your story, I'd say NC is the best way to go.  The most healthy.  All that drama - no way! 

It sounds like you are taking the best steps by seeing someone to help you through these times.  It also sounds like you are worried about lashing out at people who do not deserve it.  Obviously, this will have to be resolved. 

Good for you for sharing your story.  I know, well, think, that I will share mine here one day...  I just sent the NC letter 4 days ago, so, I'm still pretty fragile. 
Oh yes. There were plenty of other things that BIL did that irritated me, and we put a stop to them once we recognised a pattern.
It was a matter of, well, I will do X, Y & Z because they fit in with my values, and there is no way in hell we are tolerating A, B & C, because these things do not.
My basic rule of thumb was that I would do nice things for the children, but I wasn't going to let BIL inconvenience me. I have no doubt that he's resentful of things that I've said 'No' to and that this is largely what's behind his attitudes to the presents.
Like I said - alcoholic, and I'm sure he smokes an awful lot of weed.
It keeps them in teenager brain, and makes them an absolute pain to deal with, because you're just not dealing with a mature adult.
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: Dreams
« Last post by Tootsie Roll on Yesterday at 11:26:22 PM »
Well, um...  Hi all!  My first post here.  Just getting the feel for the place.

Dreams - recurring nightmare actually.  I was born and raised in Minneapolis, and have recurring nightmares that I am continually trying to get out of my experiences there.  Whether I am trying to escape from the college I went to for a while, find my way out of Mall of America or downtown Minneapolis.  Thing is, I have never gotten anywhere!  Usually just around in circles, continual extreme anxiety and fear, no one to help - even after looking for help.  Rejected by my family if they are in the dream.

It changed.  I sent the NC letter to my mom, dad and brother (I'm 47) four days ago.  I expect them to receive it tomorrow. 

So, the night after I dropped the letter in the mail, yup, stuck in Mall of America.  This time though, I had a friend!  She was a rebel friend and made the experience super fun and exciting.  So, although I never accomplished the goal of escaping, I had a friend, and I learned how to make lemons out of lemonade.  I was really surprised my dreams changed so rapidly.

The next night - another dream.  About escaping from a house because little white snakes were biting me and leaving huge baseball-sized welts that I had to continually drain and could never keep up with. While I am refusing to go into the house, a bunch of strangers from the neighborhood came and spoke to me.  I showed them the welts, they showed me theirs!  They also had little white snakes in their home and now they knew where they were coming from! 

Dreams communicate.  Nightmares communicate.  And, sometimes, they are not that difficult to interpret.     
I don't know. I don't know if either is PD, both, neither.

What I can tell you is that I believe my mother is an N. She is the most self absorbed person I know. It really is "all about her." Growing up, everything had to be her way, on her time, exactly as she wanted. There was hell to pay if anyone messed with that.

My mom was a hitter. She also got my dad to beat us when he got home for all our transgressions. There were times when we made her so angry, that she got him to "defend her" and he would slam us (girls) into walls. Does that make him a PD also? As a parent, I now understand that a healthy person would NEVER behave this way at the encouragement of their spouse, that a healthy person would stand up to the spouse and protect the children.

Growing up, I thought my dad was incredible, the Good Guy, the victim of my mother.
When I found this forum, I was first forced to see that he was at the very least an enabler. That he had power as an adult that he did not use to protect his children.

Over the last couple years, our dad has started to change rather dramatically. My brother thinks he is "checked out." I have had him yelling at me in defense of my mom when I hadn't even been criticizing her. He seems to have given up his interests and priorities in service to whatever she wants. He is literally at times spending 20-30 hrs per week in hard physical labor to prepare for "parties" for people his grandchildren's age. I find it actually disturbing and don't know if he has Stockholm syndrome, major fleas, is totally a servant to my NM, is a PD himself, or what.
Hi, AmeliaCarina:

Armchair expert here!  :heythere:

You said you met this guy thanks to "mutual acquaintances?" What were those people thinking?!!!  No, I mean, really.  How did they think you would be compatible with him?! :sadno:

But, yes...I've had those kind of set-ups...SIGH...My advice: TRUST THOSE INSTINCTS OF YOURS!

"Smart guys that have things in common with you" (or me) are a dime a dozen, frankly.

This guy actually agitated ME!!!... Sorry to be blunt, but just reading about your experience getting to know him gave me flashbacks!  :aaauuugh: Perhaps it's because I've known "that guy." Ugh.  Your post could have been a page from my younger self's journal. 

Your reaction is completely normal, APPROPRIATE, thank goodness!

Whether this dude is  a narcissist or self-absorbed or cynical/depressed an/or rude or some combination....we may never know...
but, such a glaring lack of interest and reciprocity--especially at the outset, is a huge red flag.   Don't accept this.

In the very least, he sounds RUDE. If you spend time around people who don't value you, your self-esteem will swiftly plummet, I guarantee that.

He's not even "friend material"....much less worthy of a romantic relationship.  Don't waste any further energy, or time trying to figure him out.   And don't settle with Mr. Indifferent, no matter what!

Wow, thanks for the great reply! And I love arm chair experts! They can be the best sometimes!  :)

You really made me feel better, especially when I read that just reading about my interaction with him was agitating to you.

Whew! I am not crazy!  ;D

I actually sent him a few follow up e-mails, wherein I tried to encourage him to not stay in such a negative state, and to be unafraid to grow and have a bright future, but he has not answered.

I already feel like I put WAY more into this guy than he ever lifted a finger to put into me, and I never even got to our first date! lol

Nor did I even get a "thanks!"  :stars:

It seems to me that he is the type who is highly resistant to change, which as far as I know, may be a further suggestion of narcissism, although I realize no one can know for sure. He might just be really mad that I told him he needs to work on his interpersonal skills with women.

As for how we were introduced... I have wondered the same thing!

The individuals in question had very nice things to say about him. In fact, they were from CHURCH, and get this... he is, as far as I can tell, rather close with the PRIESTS from the church!

I do not know how no one sees that this guy might be nice in a lot of ways (he seems to volunteer a lot of his time to help them out with things, which is great) but needs to learn some basic skills.

As for me, I definitely want to learn and grow, and so if anyone has any further advice, feel free to share! Even if it is just to send some tips about my actions my way.

Thanks again!


I've got a question for you: WHY do you think you put so much effort into this particular relationship?

Are your feelings towards him reminiscent of how you feel/felt with any other relationships in your life--past or present?

Does he remind you of anyone in your FOO, by any chance?
Try as much as possible for all communication to be via recording media, like voicemails, texts, emails, etc.  YOU NEED HARD EVIDENCE.

Keep your children away from her. She has zero rights to your children.   

Does she have a key to your house or knows your alarm/ garage access code?  If so, change them asap.   From what you've said she doesn't drive.  Does she have a way to show up at your door?  If she shows up suddenly,  DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR.  DO NOT LET HER IN.   Do NOT go out to talk to her.   If she won't leave, call the police and say there is a strange person trying to get into your house.

If you communicate with her at all or even worse go outside to talk to her, she will call the police and she will absolutely say you assaulted her.

What you want to have happen is she shows up to a silent house, she tries to get in or tantrums on the front lawn when she cant. You call the police, they show up and her behavior makes her look ridiculous.

Teach your kids asap- only mommy and daddy answer the door.   She will eventually try to manipulate your kids to open the door and let her into your house. 

Teach your kids when you say the magic word they can watch a special movie, game, or tv show on your tablet in the closet with headphones or in the basement, somewhere they are out of the way and can't hear your mother going berserk.

Getting free of your mother will take a little time, it's not an instant process.

She WILL escalate her abuse when she realizes you are pulling away from her.  If you can post here right away and we will give you support and ideas what to do or say to meet the challenge and protect yourself.
Dealing with PD Parents / Re: I lose myself when I'm around my mother
« Last post by all4peace on Yesterday at 10:39:39 PM »
As I read back over my original post, it just seems so petty and whiny. Really, I just have an ignoring, self-involved, emotionally immature mother. At least she doesn't make demands of me. When I read about some of the mothers on this forum, it makes my skin crawl. My mother drives me absolutely bananas because she knows everything and has to have a comment on every single thing that is said, so in settings such as this weekend I find myself going really quiet to cope. It stinks but it's not that huge of a deal.

We talked with our son about the dynamic here, and the invitation at a bad time for our family. It went really badly at first, but then I tried again with him to just more calmly discuss the family dynamics. He hates conversations about relationships, but I tried to find a route that was acceptable. I hope I got the situation calmed down and the only important point across: Our FOC needs to support each other during tough times, which is a higher priority than gma having a good time with DS and his friends.

I actually used the phrase "plausible deniability" today when talking to DH about my mother.

Sorry, A4P, that your mom managed to make you feel so alone while you were surrounded by family and friends at your gathering.  Itís an amazing ability they have, isnít it?  I could totally see mine doing something similar (I have no kids, but the basic idea, yes, totally).

Iím wondering if your mom is actually really hurt, but is completely incapable of self soothing and reaching out to address it with you honestly Ė so instead, she has to push you away and let you know just how much she doesnít need you. 
Sort of an ďIíll show you!Ē

The thing is, thereís plausible deniability all over the place here, so thereís no point in confronting her on it.  You would be made out to be ďoh so sensitiveĒ.  But I am upset for you because she seems to be trying to drive a wedge between you and your kids.

So, no good suggestions, but Iím sorry.  Best wishes for DHís surgery and recovery.    :bighug:

I think this is probably very accurate. How many different ways and times am I to give her very chances to connect? I'm not bending over backwards, for sure. I'm not asking for a heart-to-heart. I'm not making much effort at all, but I am making some effort and it's (as always) far more than she is making. I do care if she's in pain but I am so weary from holding up relationships nearly single handedly.
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