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Unchosen Relationships / Re: Pressure to contact uNPD mother
« Last post by daughter on Today at 03:40:58 PM »
It wouldn't be discourteous to tell your MIL that she is hurting your feelings when she admonishes you to reconcile with your mother, and that she is unaware of the terrible circumstances concerning your decision to be estranged from your mother.  Sometimes people prattle on about generalizations and sentimentalities about "mothers" and "duty to parents" and "life's too short" without realizing that they're off-base, hurtful, and clueless about particular circumstances.  Perhaps she feels your "mother issues" are run-of-the-mill, from lack of specific knowledge, and perhaps she feels duty-bound (and self-entitled) to redirect her adult-children, no matter their age or circumstance.  And, I'll add, perhaps she's also a bit "flea-bitten" herself, if she's conflicted about her own disharmonious relationship with her own seemingly difficult mother (from description), and trying to justify her own passiveness/timidity towards her unpleasant mother.

I'm NC with my npd-enmeshed parents.  I am/was my mean mother's blatantly disfavored daughter, and my enabler-father's "dutiful daughter".  When I married (twice), my mother was overtly spiteful and mean towards my MILs, at each and every encounter.  After my current MIL's last encounter with my witchlike mother, we visited my out-of-state inlaws at next holiday, and I plainly explained dynamic of my mother, my npd-enmeshed parents, and my FOO-role as "Cinderella".  It needed to be addressed.  I needed to apologize for my mother's bad behavior over that prior decade.  Did my MIL understand?  She's a conservative, fairly religious, stoic woman, and perhaps she feels that I should be devoted to my mother nonetheless, but she deserved an explanation, and I deserved some semblance of her respect for the decisions I made.  At time I was staunchly LC/MC, and a decade later, I'm NC altogether with my npd-enmeshed FOO Family.

"Boundaries" by Townsend is a great book.  But in regards to any "honor thy mother" directives quoting scripture, I'd recommend Luke Ministries web-site, which effectively demolishes any suppositions that adult-children must blindly obey, "honor", and appease their parents.  Kudos to the creator of that site!   
Separating & Divorcing / Re: Blue today
« Last post by On My Own on Today at 03:39:39 PM »
My heart goes out to you Bluebird! I too have read that book and was in an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship with an AVPD (28 years).  When I first kicked him out, I too was attracting abusive people to me.  I had two women at work that were constantly taking advantage of me and talking disrespectfully to me.  It has taken me over a year, but I have gotten stronger and gained the respect of both of them.  Give yourself some grace right now.  Yes, you probably are wearing a virtual sign that says 'doormat', I know I was.  I walked with my head down, didn't look people in the eye, and couldn't speak up for myself.  That's what constant abuse does to us.  Make your own recovery your first priority.  This is the season for caring for you!  No more being drawn in to his 'poor me'.  And oh, he will turn up the manipulations so that you will get drawn in, but you must resist.  Look how far you've come!  You're taking care of you.  You are strong and you have just begun this new journey!
Daughter, good advice and when I read your stuff, I always feel so bad for you. You deserved so much better.
And I agree, it gets worse, the older they get. It goes from hiding their shameful behavior to, having no shame and being blatant about it. :hug:
Unchosen Relationships / Bittersweet Day grieving loss of FOO
« Last post by grey_area on Today at 03:37:27 PM »
Random memories came to consciousness this morning. My BPDm let my DH and I "borrow" a dining room table when we were married. She "asked" for it back the same month I was due to deliver my first child. I am sad realizing that her timing was selfish. We had to scramble to buy another table just so we could have a place to eat in our house. What kind of mother takes away a table when we were trying to buy crib, car seat and all the baby gear? In my mom's mind, 'Let's add some more choas to her life.'

Today my DDs had their first day of preschool. I took pictures and helped them deal with their emotions. My oldest said, "Mom...I need some love." So I stopped to hug her and my other DD. Later, my DD said, "I am nervous." I replied, "That's normal. You just have to listen to your teacher. When it's time to line up. You get in line. If it is time for snack, you have seat." My DD was comforted.

I am sad knowing that I could never get my emotional needs met as child. I imagine for a time I told my BPDm, "I need love" or "I am nervous." I know she was never able/willing to respond appropriately. So, I stopped asking.

I consciously choose not to text pictures of my DDs first day of school to my BPDm or En-Dad. I know they will just use them to keep up appearances. This is one of the first times I have withheld something tangible that a grandparent is "entitled to."
Chosen Relationships / Re: Venting, I wish he would just stop for good
« Last post by water on Today at 03:27:31 PM »
NC would be easier than what you are going through KF. :hug:

There is a school of thought: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
You'll be more likely to head off his crazy making if you let him text you. You'll be able to gauge if he is acting stable or not.

If he is like other PD's, he might be nice to the kids until they start becoming more independent (around age 12-14) and then he'll share his crazy making with his kids, and that is never a good thing. You don't want them to turn into little people pleasers that don't recognize the signs of abuse and that never stand up for themselves even when situations become ridiculous. By moving out like you did, you did show them that you were willing to fix the situation. You showed them that some people fight too much and now they have a calm stable situation without dad. So you can feel terrible keeping your kids away from him but I'm betting they probably aren't going to want to see him. You can teach them that you will respect their feelings when the opportunity arises. (I had a court order with my ex and the law trumped any of our feelings. All I could do was teach respect for the law.)

KF, if the day does come, where he acts stable, and he misses the kids and wants to see them, see them at a park with you present. If he doesn't spend time with them and only spends time with you, you will know what that is about, you and him. You will know that the 'best interest of the children' is not a priority for him.
I don't believe he'd ever go for partial custody of them, he's too selfish and self centered.

I personally, can't imagine going NC with my kids' dad while I'm trying to raise them, that's frowned on in the courts here. It is seen as 'unable to co-parent', 'refusing communication' and it's not in the best interest of the children. Just wanted to share that point of view with you, no matter what you decide.:hug:
Committed to Working On It / Re: NPD's Psychologist
« Last post by Hopelessly stuck on Today at 03:20:39 PM »
Thanks for all the answers about Marriage counseling. I had thought about requiring UNPDH into going into counseling.  I am sitting on the fence... You know they are sooo very nice sometimes.  Completely evil the next!

I'm the disfavored daughter of a npd/bpd mom and enabler npd dad, formerly "dutiful daughter", formerly tolerant of a great deal of bad behavior, npd behavior, and just plain malevolent parents' mean behavior.  With birth of my first child, I realized HOW dysfunctional my relationship with my parents was, and how dsyfunctional my parents' behavior was towards me.  My having children drove the point home: my parents didn't "parent" me; they only burdened me with their self-entitlement and narcissism.  Nonetheless, I kept my parents in my life for nearly another two decades, still kow-towing to their invasiveness and self-entitlement and meddling, still "dutiful daughter"...until I just couldn't stomach any further participation on my part.  (My patient DH's patience ran its course, and he finally said: "no more socializing with your parents-please!", the gentle nudge I needed to finally allow myself NC.)  My marriage and my kids were both negatively affected by that continued contact/exposure to my npd-enmeshed parents.  That contact taught my children that my parents can be rude, dismissive and mean towards me, that our house-rules can be violated, that I can be disrespected, time and time again.  If I had a "re-do", I'd have terminated my relationship with my npd-parents when they threatened to boycott my wedding.  But my patience and tolerance, and eventually my LC/MC, enabled increasingly worsening npd-bpd behavior to occur.  In fact, my LC/MC enraged my parents, eventually resulting in their (not-so-secretly) disowning me years before I finally went NC.

No grandparents is far better for our children than npd and/or bpd-enmeshed grandparents.  What is harming behavior for us, is repugnant for our children.

Npd-grandparents' behavior doesn't improve with age, it worsens.  Their self-entitlement and self-indulgence becames more pronounced, their mannerisms and expectations more overt.  Your relationship with them won't improve, and likely worsen.  They won't see you as a "means to your children" but rather an impediment to "their children", because they'll feel they "own" their grandchildren much like they "own" their adult-children.  Expect them to be rude to you in front of your children.

Children are impressionable and good readers of character.  At seven, our oldest DS was asking us: "why do grandma and grandpa dislike you, mom?" and "why are grandma and grandpa so mean to you, mom?" and "why is everything always about aunt (nsis) and her family?".  You'll find your npd parents competing for your children's primary affection, telling them that their parents don't love them, or that their parents are crazy or stupid, and best disrespected, etc.

If your parents weren't supportive and helpful to you before you had children, if that relationship was dysfunctional and disappointing to you, then don't expect the arrival of grandchildren cause an iota of positive personality change in your npd-parent.  Likely a npd-parent will view the grandchildren much like their adult-children, a source of narcissistic feed, a possession to model and pose, a subject for prideful boasts, but not likely a meaningful relationship in your child's life.  It's ok to keep your npd-parent(s) out of your children's lives.  Best wishes!   

All of the behaviors Iíve mentioned, and many more are all linked to it, even your childhood and the way you grew up, all fit the illness.  Please understand, it is NOT your fault, and Iím only telling you because I believe in you, I care about you, and I think I am the only person who has gotten close enough to you to understand what you go through every day, it canít be easy, but it can get better, and I know in my heart, you CAN do i[/color]t.


This sounds an awful lot like my NPDgf - almost every word of it, so I really feel for you. I decided to tell her about the remote NPD diagnosis soon after I found out about it and got short shrift. She denied there was anyything wrong with her, told me I was the one who needed therapy and when I said that I thought I was in the only person who had got close enough to help her she just told me that it made her despise me even more......

I've got the same response from my exBPDbf. It was like he saw my seeing and accepting his real self as a threat to his carefully constructed facade, and tried to devalue me and get rid of me as soon as possible ..
I guess I have been in this class for quit sometime. After 17 years I think MY UNPDH doesn't think that way. I guess I did not argue with him on anything he said about me looking at other Guys. I know he stalked me for years... I would ignore him when I saw him, I pretended not to see him.  There was of course the accusations that when I put on perfume,makeup decent clothes, etc. that I had a date with a guy  :aaauuugh:  So I quit doing any of that. Go figure NOW HE COMPLAINS about that! I told him that he didn't feel secure when I had done that so I protected myself that way. and his statement was "Well YOU can't blame everything on the past!" 

I don't know if any of you have noticed how far this can go.. MY H moved all my very nice dressy clothes to a box.  Then the box disappeared. When he washes My clothes he just wades them up in a pile so they are wrinkled and unwearable. I bought a pair of shorts for summer, and he told me I needed to take them back.  They were too short. (about 2" below my butt, not really too short) I told him that I did not need to take them back I could wear them around the INSIDE of the house. They just disappeared. I mean go figure I am a 60 year old lady! who looks at me?

I think that is the part of me that is gone that I miss! I used to take good care of Myself,  am not pretty by any means. (Maybe that is also a projection from MY uNPDM, that I feel ugly) but I did like to dress nice, wear makeup, and nice shoes...

I wouldn't say I lied, bruceli. But I would say I did hide the truth. I didn't reveal information that I could have. Simply because I knew how my wife would take stuff. She couldn't handle the truth. That's where, once again, she couldn't see how her previous statements & actions affected how I reacted.

Right they can't handle the truth and make everything even simple things into a Major DRAMA!  My uNPDH also can't handle any expression of feelings! So, I definitely can't share how I feel... when I do he tries to tell me all the reasons why I am wrong and he is right!

NO wonder I am such a basket case!  :stars:
Unchosen Relationships / Re: Pressure to contact uNPD mother
« Last post by Stevie on Today at 03:09:02 PM »
SA - This is a response from an agnostic, DO NOT DO IT, but I was hoping to put a smile on your face.  I was wondering how insistent an interfering mil would be if you said, "Why mil I didn't want to tell you this, but the reason I cut my Pd mother off is because she viciously criticized you all the time ".  I wonder what she would think about your mother then.  Btw, this is exactly what my npd mother did when speaking about my second mil.  She complained and picked at everything she did.  I have found that those through the years that have told me to put up with npd mother's hate and manipulations, take offense REAL QUICK when they get a small taste of what we have endured.  I hope you come back to the thread soon.  It sounds like hubby is still in the fog, and continuing to deny his mother's completely unacceptable, inexcusable behavior.  I was in his place for years, justifying, trying to see the good in the horrible, accepting intolerable behavior.  We all understand what you are going through, and you deserve support and encouragement from this forum.
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