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Dealing with PD Parents / Re: Talk with enabler dad after 10 months NC
« Last post by Spinoza on Today at 03:47:47 PM »
Hi Paco
This brought back some memories for me. My enDad died 15 years ago but this was just the way he was. His entire life was under her control and if he attempted to do anything at all that was autonomous, there was hell to pay. Rages, violence, threats of divorce, days of silent treatment, insane accusations etc.

After a while he just gave up - no friends, no hobbies, no interests that weren't hers, no agency in his own life.

When he was diagnosed with terminal gastric cancer I spent a lot of time talking to him about treatment options because he did have a sudden attack of stubbornness and said he did not want any treatment. My NM and DB told him he was being selfish. I just thought he wanted to die to escape the shell his life had become. Anyway, I asked him why he had stayed with her when she was so difficult and he just shrugged and said he didn't know where else to go.

He succumbed to the pressure and had the treatment. It was a disastrous failure and he spent his last months in misery and pain. I nursed him at the end because NM wouldn't allow him to go to hospice or allow visiting nurses to touch " her" husband. On the other hand, she certainly wasn't prepared to do the tough work herself.

As an end note, a few people turned up at his funeral that NM didn't know. It turned out that he had developed some secret friendships while he was supposed to be at work. He would go and chat to an elderly woman down the road and mow her lawn, have a lunchtime beer with a guy from the office. Perfectly innocuous. NM was outraged of course. It was as if he, and they, had stolen something from her.

I was overcome with feelings of anger at such a wasted life, and sadness at how pathetic he had become in her service. I am glad he escaped to be honest.

Spinoza
12
Thanks to all of you. I'm so grateful there is a site like this one.

I love the idea of the chair. I really don't have many photos of my mother, but I have one that shows her as she was to me. It's like a leer. I also am in therapy and that helps a lot too. I don't know how to explain it to my husband because his mother was nice and normal and doesn't get my entire family. He just tries to protect me from them and wants me to stay away from them. He doesn't understand why I even care what they think. He says, "You have us. You don't need them."

Ah, the simple life for those who had normal people raise them and live with them. I know he means well, but he will never understand.

I have read a few books. I read "Out of the FOG" and some others and will try the ones recommended here. I feel very shamed that my foo blames me for all their problems, but I am working on that too. Also, if somebody raised his/her voice, I startled. It's so screwed up, but it's getting much better. Thank you again.
13
Separating & Divorcing / Re: Please make it go away already.
« Last post by cleanlaundry on Today at 03:41:01 PM »
What helps me is knowing that I was never loved in the first place. It was all an elaborate con. I was being used. As soon as I started putting up a few simplistic boundaries, I was trash in his estimation.

Yes we have lost a relationship. Worse, we also have to deal with the extra loss of realizing what we thought we had was a ruse. Double whammy. Double grieving.

What keeps me plowing forward is focusing on my kids. They are what matters. Self-care so I can remain functional for their sake. Focus on the positive so I can be a buffer for them through our turmoil.

Hang in there. This is hard, no doubt about it. But you know what? You are doing it, you are surviving even though it hurts. Peace and strength to you!
14
Common Behaviors / Re: Can't go anywhere alone!
« Last post by FoggyNight on Today at 03:38:33 PM »
Cally,

Have you ever asked him a question phrased something like this...

"What can I possibly say/do that will answer the question in your mind once and for all, 'Are you cheating on me', when I always answer, 'No'?"

And in regards to yelling...  I know what you mean when you say, "but I'm not yelling".  I don't yell either.  But funny thing is, people establish a baseline of who we are to them.  For me, I am either a stoic, calm me, or I am a slightly elevated and excited me.  I don't bounce off of walls or anything like that when I am in an higher state of being.  With that said, when I would get on to my kids and would use a stern voice, my kids would say, "Dad, your yelling at me".  We know we aren't yelling, because to us, someone truly yelling is someone screaming their head off in a rage.  But to the other person, when we exceed our baseline level...  Unfortunately, we are considered to be yelling to them!  It sucks.  Just be sure to look around when you are talking in public and take notice that no one reacts to your tone of voice during the conversation.  Then, when he acuses you of yelling, then look again.  Then you'll know EXACTLY who is yelling.
15
I chose to repress the real me before I even got married to keep the peace!
I totally get this.  Some of the first steps I took when coming OOTF were to reclaim my own interests regarding music and books.  I realized that I was only reading her hand-me-down books and we only ever listened to a radio station that played music she liked.  Before starting to wake up, I'm not sure I even realized how much I disliked those books and music.  I think starting to choose my own books and starting to listen to my own music helped some, but it was still a couple of years before I really began to understand how unhappy I really was and why.

One of the saddest moments in MC was when the T asked about my dreams, desires, aspirations.  I honestly had none.  I'd been in a state where I didn't even allow thoughts like that in my head, because there was no point.

As far as I've come moving towards separating from my wife, it's still hard to imagine just what the next stage is going to be like and hard to think about dreams and desires.  Mostly when I think about stuff like that I start imagining starting over, on my own.  I know my apartment will be small and spartan (at least initially).  I look forward to finding out where life takes me from there, finding new dreams and desires and to facing some of the demons (like fear of being alone) that helped get me in this position in the first place.
16
Parents' Discussion / Re: it's time for her to move out
« Last post by farfromthetree on Today at 03:36:01 PM »
I don't know anything about this. What legal action can I take?
17
Chosen Relationships / Re: Unfinished emotional business??
« Last post by LAH on Today at 03:30:41 PM »
Recently I tried to have a conversation with my SO about how we never seem to solve, resolve anything and that this is a large piece of what keeps me from being able to be responsive, fun, and relaxed in our relationship.  His response was predictable in that he started with the whole leaving things past in the past, don't keep digging up old bones..etc why can't I leave things alone..
It then moved to his admission that he had no tools in his emotional/relationship toolbox to deal with issues/conflict..I thought this was an amazingly insightful admission on his part..but as we moved on to discuss how to move forward and perhaps counseling was an option he said he didn't want to do that but later said he would but I had to find the counselor and it couldn't be a female because he did'nt want to be ganged up on like other times he's gone to counselig with other SO/spouses..sigh..
Then the discussion moved to him saying FINE he'd work on an issue and we'd finish it and it would NEVER be brought up again, and I had 5 seconds to come up with an issue I wanted to work on or he was walking out the door..When I pointed out that THiIS attitude towards the relationship WAS one of our issues..he became even more furious and eventually did leave...
Also, none of the about was done at a normal tone of voice...mostly angry furious statements hurled at me..and in the end...LOL he won again...!! we solved NOTHING agreed on NOTHING and now have another "issue/confrontation" to add to the backlog of previous like encounters..the next time we talked later in the day he was fine..as if all of the previous had never occured..

It's just all so subtle..like water wearing away at me..sometimes its fine and others its a typhoon..
It is madness
The oddest thing of all is that he actually made the first statement that began the entire discussion while all the time proclaiming how much he hates this type of thing..
18
Chosen Relationships / Re: Today I hurt so much.
« Last post by runningFool on Today at 03:26:46 PM »
Those waves of emotion are tough.  I'm still with my uNPDw, but I'm working to get myself ready to leave.  Every now and then it hits me, the pain and sadness that for the most part I haven't let myself feel.  And I can tell that there's anger in there, too.  But I'm not ready to let that surface.  I can't imagine having to keep living with her once I let that out and acknowledge it.
Part of what makes me feel so alone is living day to day as if nothing is really wrong and I'm not making plans to leave.  Aside from here and my T, there are only 3 people I can talk to about this and I don't see any of them all that often.
Like weeblewobbled says, it wasn't you.  I hope you can get to the point where you're past embarassment for what he's done.  He owns that and you don't need responsibility for his issues or behavior.

Wishing you peace and happiness as you move forward.
19
Sorry you're going through this newday. Your topic caught my attention but the body of your text even more so. After my ex discarded me I could not leave. I was actually leaving to go back to my home state. The weather in the Northeast was atrocious so I wound up staying under the same roof with her for nearly 2 months more. That two months is the time that really beat me down. There were times when she did not come home, her excuse was that she didn't want to be there, and I'm sure she went and stayed at her mother's house. I was very incapacitated at the time and what she really did was leave me to my loneliness. She took nearly everything away from me, love, happiness, the nine-year-old child, her family, transportation, sex, companionship as well as many other things. I actually got to the point where I would tremble before she would come home the times that she did come home. Complex posttraumatic stress disorder. I don't know what to tell you about staying sane except that if you can get out and be around more normal caring understanding individuals that will help you a lot. Don't expect your PD to make life easy because you darn well know they want to see you in pain anyway. I'll never forget that cold expression on her face dark shark eyes as well as no kindness or compassion. Right now I am still battling with myself because of the unbelievable ability of what has happened. My advice also would be to get out as fast as you can. It did not even seem that the longer I stayed the better the chance would be of reconciling. That just was not going to happen. In the last week that I was there, two days prior she went with her child to Disney World. Really really suffering wasn't she?
20
Cally,


I really doubt the DX of BPD for you....  Just the simple fact that you are willing to consider it a real issue speaks volumes about who you really are.  I've read a few places, and many of us here tend to agree, we get "fleas" from our PD mates.  We take on their traits in order to emotionally defend ourselves, was the best conclusion I could come to.

When I saw a therapist (psychiatrist, whatever), he said he clearly could DX me with depression, post-divorce.  I asked him at one point if it was me or her...  He simply said, "Do you see her in this office?"

When I saw the marriage counselor for the last time, I straight up asked her if it was me, if I had the problem.  She said, "No, it's not you".

Congratulations on taking a hard look at your alcohol consumption.  Given the high volume of hard liquor my xPDw consumed prior/during her rages, I eventually began to watch her consumption like a hawk.  I avoided any touchy-feely conversations due to how the alcohol distorted her perceptions and her inhibitions.  When I said anything about it, she called me an "a$$hole".  There was truly something up with her...  and alcohol unleashed it.

But now I keep thinking what does this mean for the relationship? Is it better or worse if we both have problems?

Problems are only worse if left untreated...  Consider this trait you mentioned:

What if I do have a PD myself?? What then?? I absolutely cannot mention one word of this to my H! My god how happy would he be! Forever more I'd get thrown at me "see, I knew you were the one with the problem".

Given the level of lies I experienced, I began to do similar things to what you said above.  Is that lying and deception?  Yes.  But was it intentional?  No.  Why did I do it?  Because any effort I made to communicate was only used against me in a malicious and vindictive manner.  Why would ANYONE want to share intimate details with someone else if they were only going to be used in a malicious manner?  So, we close up.  We stop sharing.  Does that make us BPD?  No.  It just means your spouse (my xPDw) is no longer your friend and cannot be trusted with the truth.
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