What can we do?

[Candid]

I've just been out walking and came up behind a young woman ranting and yelling non-stop at a little girl I would estimate at two years old. Mother was full of insults and threats, including "you won't be able to see Daddy" and "no, you can't have anything now". As I passed them the little one started crying as she stumbled along and mother was still shouting horrible things at her.

I got some distance ahead of them (I wasn't hurrying; they were slow, obviously) and mother was still raving. I heard: "You have to walk, you little *. I'm not carrying you." I turned round hoping to shame mother out of what she was doing, but she was wholly focused on the child she appeared to hate.

I'd been feeling okay but my mood got clouded by this incident. I briefly considered going back and offering to piggyback the toddler to wherever they were headed. I figured it couldn't be far and I was walking for exercise, didn't need to be anywhere in particular. TBH I funked it because mother was properly wound-up and I was almost certain she would turn her wrath on me. At the very least she would tell me to mind my own business.

One time in a supermarket I saw a woman clout her little boy, and without hesitating I yelled: "NOT ROUND HIS HEAD, LADY!!" She looked up, startled, and I was pleased about that.

What do other members do when they see obvious child mistreatment in public? Do we have a duty to intervene, or is that putting our noses in forbidden places? I know toddlers can be very trying. And would intervention be meaningless anyway, one small incident in the context of whatever horrors go on behind closed doors?

[sanmagic7]

this is such a tough one, candid.  i had a friend who was very good at diffusing such situations.  she would go up to the mom/whoever, and say in a very concerned voice something about how we can all have tough days, can't we, or 'you must be having a really hard day'. 

one time i intervened (i wasn't as diplomatic as my friend!) when several adults had a toddler in a bungee cord-like contraption that would send him sailing about 30 ft. into the air.  they were all laughing as he was screaming in terror (this was in a mall - i heard the kid as i entered the store, walked through it, and came out to the mall where this contraption was set up).  to make myself heard above the noise, i yelled out 'don't you know how dangerous that is?' and the woman rounded on me, yelling at me to mind my own business.  by this time, they'd let the child stay down, but when i looked at him, i thought, truly, that he might be dead.  he was at least passed out, lying there.  i almost said that it looked like he needed to be taken to the e.r. - it was frightening to me to see.

out of the corner of my eye, tho, i'd seen another mom about to put her little girl in one of the seats (there were 3 of them) until she heard me yell, and she quickly took her back out and walked away from it.  the friend who was with me, as we were walking away, told me how brave i was to have said something.  i didn't feel brave, just concerned for this little boy's welfare.

i do believe that children are everyone's concern, cuz they have no way to protect themselves.  when i told my hub about this incident in the mall, he told me i should've minded my own business.  i don't know.  i really like my one friend's diplomacy in such situations in public, and i'd like to think that i could pull that off as well.  i think it's a really good way to get the parent to stop without shaming them.

i just get so scared for the kid, tho, scared that even if i stop what's going on in public, it might make it worse for the kid when s/he got home, as in 'look at what you did!  you embarrassed me in public' and then even a worse punishment.  i think if the urge hits us, and it feels right, then, by all means, step in for the child's welfare.  it may be an instinct that tells us when it might be a safe thing to do, or that it might be better off left alone.  i can't come to grips with this myself.  ugh!  such a dilemma!

[Candid]

out of the corner of my eye, tho, i'd seen another mom about to put her little girl in one of the seats (there were 3 of them) until she heard me yell, and she quickly took her back out and walked away from it.  the friend who was with me, as we were walking away, told me how brave i was to have said something.  i didn't feel brave, just concerned for this little boy's welfare.

Yes, I was concerned for the little girl, too. There didn't seem to be any physical danger but mother was giving a stream of hurtful I-don't-like-you messages. The slap from my earliest memory had no effect on me later (nor much at the time) but the enraged shout "You bad girl!" reverberated in my self-image for decades.

I think you were brave, too -- and tactful. It's great to have educated a bystander.

i think if the urge hits us, and it feels right, then, by all means, step in for the child's welfare.  it may be an instinct that tells us when it might be a safe thing to do, or that it might be better off left alone.

I think I could have gone back and identified with mother by saying: "This one looks like a handful. Do you want to pop her onto my back?" But I also think, having listened to her for a while, that she would have been hostile towards me right away.

As you say, it's a tough one. Having been a battered wife in my first marriage, I know how much I wished someone would intervene. My husband bashed me once in a restaurant, and to my amazement a couple of burly staff immediately wrestled us to the door, me bent over and him still 'leading' me by a handful of my hair. Since then I've stood outside a house with screaming going on and called the police.

When it comes to protecting children, I think we as adults have to appear to be siding with the parent as your friend did. 

The mother I saw today didn't strike her child, except with words.  I'm not a parent myself, but I see a lot of parents who think that's okay.

[A_Girl_You_Dont_Know]

This is one of my biggest triggers and I'm a freeze/fawn so I never do anything but berate myself after even though I know I couldn't help it after the EF passes. I work at a library in a poor community and overhear children service meetings and see so many abused and neglected children. My co-workers do a great job both with them and with me when my EF wears off and the loss of adrenaline causes a meltdown.

This was in no way helpful but ugh. I empathize with you.

[sanmagic7]

candid,

it's so difficult to determine when the time might be right, and, as you say, whether the carer is going to be hostile.  we do our best because we can't save everyone. 

what a horrible experience to have gone thru in that restaurant.  i'm so glad you're out of that now.  it's good to know you're safe.

b_l,

not everyone can do everything.  we do what we can when we can.  i think we all wish we could be superheroes at times like this and just swoop in and save the children.  it would be great if we could.  unfortunately, none of our superpowers extend that far.  know that your wounds probably prevent you from doing everything you'd like to do, and it's not your fault you can't always help.  someday that may be different.  it just is what it is for now. 

big hugs to you both.

[Blueberry]

Candid,
I'm so sorry about the restaurant experience - that nobody helped you. It's good that you're out of that particular situation now, I mean with your ex.

All,
What can we do? In some scenarios I've run from the scene to save my little ICs / prevent myself from dissociating. That was during a time when I could feel in the air that something was about to happen. That was perfectly acceptable for me to save myself. It's not as if there were no other people around who could've intervened, and my own health should be the most important aspect for me unless I am directly responsible for some person or animal.

My M is the type who'd take it out on her own child (and did) if she felt any kind of interference from a stranger or a family member or the state or whoever else. Her child, she can do what she wants with it.

There were some members of extended family who told my M and F that they should protect me more and they ought to look at what was going on with me and B1. I didn't hear the end of that particular episode till a number of years after I left home. The nasty remarks, the verbal/psychological abuse, the blaming me for somebody else speaking up (unbeknownst to me) boggles my mind when I think back. The good thing though in later years, like when I was first in T, was the realisation that somebody had seen what I was going through and somebody had tried to help. That wouldn't help a toddler in later life, they wouldn't remember.

Sometimes I do spontaneously stand up for somebody who cannot stand up for themselves. Recently I jumped up and told a verbal aggressor that I thought his behaviour was deplorable as he was loudly haranguing and verbally abusing an adult refugee (who didn't understand enough of our local language and who was trying to pacify and cope with his own disabled child) for something he hadn't even done.  That really stopped the aggressor in his tracks. 

Depending how I'm feeling on any given day, I might very well not though.

[sanmagic7]

good for you, blueberry.  even one aggressor confronted means that someone got a message they needed to hear.  we can't do it all. 

[EverPure]

At work, me and some coworkers saw a woman beating an 18 month old, while yelling and swearing at him. We called the police and had her arrested. 

[sanmagic7]

wow!  everpure, how very courageous of you and the rest.  what a tremendous intervention on behalf of that child.  i can't say enough good things about it.  well done!