Sorry to those who have experienced sexual abuse

[Kizzie]

The US election has been and is a horrible, frightening event that has many of deeply upset and reactive as we can see in this thread.  I am not even a US citizen and yet I feel like my world has turned upside down over night. Is what happened there becoming the new normal?  It taps into the abuse we all experienced at the hands of those who had power over us and that is terrifying and depressing. So, I do agree that we need to talk about it, but in a way that doesn't land us in the same place as those in the US have ended up - bitter, divided..... 

I want to speak on behalf of Three Roses for a moment.  She was very concerned about that happening here and took action to prevent that, not because she wanted to shut anyone down per se, but because she wanted to keep this forum safe.  There's a big difference between ill intent and caring. It is our role to keep the discussions from devolving into something negative and it is not always a simple matter to discern when a discussion is becoming rancorous and inflammatory, and when it is healthy debate.  Based on all that has happened and continues to happen in the US, I too think it best to err on the side of caution. 

This is a deeply triggering event because it is so representative of the trauma and abuse we have all experienced. Ths, it is important to talk about, but we do need to take care that the discussion stays respectful and considerate of the fact that it is a very emotional topic. 

 

[Kizzie]

There is no fault here.  The US election has been and is a horrible, frightening event that has us all upset and reactive as we can see in this thread.  I am not even a US citizen and yet I feel like my world has turned upside down over night. It taps into the abuse we all experienced at the hands of those who had power over us and that is deeply triggering in so many ways.  We do need to talk about it, but in a way that doesn't land us in the same place as those in the US have ended up - bitter, divided ..... 

Three Roses was very concerned about that happening here and took action to prevent that, not because she wanted to shut anyone down per se, but because she wanted to keep this forum safe.  There's a big difference between ill intent and caring. It is our role to keep the discussions from devolving into something negative and not always a simple matter to discern when a discussion is becoming rancorous and inflammatory, and when it is healthy debate. 

This is a deeply triggering event as we have seen, because it is so representative of the trauma and abuse we have all experienced. As such it is important to talk about, but we do need to take care that the discussion stays respectful and considerate of the fact that it is very emotional for so many of us.   

[radical]

Postscript...I hesitated to post this, but I responded to it anyway. There was a time on this forum when I felt my every word was scrutinized. Once my words were taken out of context entirely, thrown back at me in insulting fashion, and I was devastated. Because here had felt like a rare safe place,..and I'd been invalidated and humiliated. Maybe that's just adding surplus words to an already long post, but now that I've regained a measure of security here, I still feel it's okay to 'be me' and express myself when it seems I can fairly contribute something of merit. If I lose that sense again...well, that's only a fear, I guess. But it feels odd to even have to wonder.

This is important and I want to respond to it because I know where it comes from.  Ironically,  I'm still reeling from a huge and painful EF  resulting from a kind of cult abuse many years ago.  You talk about feeling every word is scrutinised because, in the past, your words have been used to hurt you - deliberately* taken out of context and thrown back in your face, and used to humiliate, invalidate and devastate you.  (*my interpretation based on my experience).

Wow.  Woodsgnome, I needed to hear those words today, so thank you for writing them.

I see how my own experience penetrates my experience of everything going on around me.  I was so vulnerable in a totalitarian system in which my sincerity, trust, good intentions, honesty, and integrity was turned into a weapon and used to devastate my sense of reality and trust in myself, trust that was already so fragile due to childhood abuse.  No wonder I only really feel any kind of safety when I'm right away from the eyes and ears of other people.  No wonder I'm so devastated and my core is so easily destabilised (what's that joke meme - 'the centre cannot hold') by just the presence of others judging and interpreting me according to their own experiences and beliefs.

A whole lot of things triggered me in a situation last week, and then when I was most vulnerable something happened that sent me into orbit.   It was so out of proportion to the affect that I was left blaming myself and feeling that it was my fault that I'm irrevocably broken and I'll never be able to re-enter any kind of community and will therefore always be alone.  That I just can't and never will be able to cope with and belong among other people, yet the loneliness of being separated has been unbearable.

The context of the flashback was something I was doing to try and heal myself.  I became involved in what turned out to be a kind of cult for the same reason.  So it is full circle. My experience was an isolated, totalitarian psychotherapy cult, which like all try cults, incorporated every kind of abuse.  I was involved in legal battles for ten years because so many patients (all trying to overcome severe trauma, killed themselves as a result of the "psychotherapy".

Funny thing, My neurologist recommended I not enter this treatment because some similarities of the context (place and people, not the treatment itself) in which it would be delivered meant the danger of it massively retriggering my  ptsd  were too great.  He withheld his support, so I buried his referral letter in which recommended I not have it.  Today I feel grateful that he cared enough, and had the insight to do that.  That he understood what that experience had done to me.

The treatment itself is valuable.  I hope I can find a way to have it without losing control because of the context again.  The treatment removes my defenses and I need that for it to work.

Woodsgnome, I've been in that place of humiliation, invalidation and psychological devastation, and lost the ability to fully understand why.  Your words have been so valuable in reminding me and putting me back into here and now, a lot of years and miles away.  Please stay and please keep talking.

[mourningdove]

Gosh, this thread makes me sad. I don't want movementforthebetter to leave or Three Roses to go away. And you didn't do anything wrong, radical.

I made a post on this thread and it was deleted by moderators. Apparently it offended someone but they didn't let me know so I could edit it? Only my post was deleted and deemed political, despite the whole discussion being about politics and abuse of power. (irony!)

Pretty sure I was following the terms of use and didn't realize mods can just delete any post because they feel like it.

I pm'd the mods asking for further explanation as to why I alone was censored and received condescending copy-pastes from the dictionary instead.

Is this a complete account of what happened? Didn't we just have a painful conversation on OOTS about heavy-handed moderation and poor communication??? I have nothing but positive regard for Three Roses, but I feel this needed to be said.

edit: And for the record, I strongly disliked both of the candidates and supported neither. I've felt nauseated and scared since the election, but I know that I would have felt this way regardless of the outcome. I understand the need to talk about it all, and I also understand the need to not talk about it.

[Dee]

I wanted to leave this be.  But I need to say it.  I feel it was totally unintentional and I cannot emphasize totally unintentional enough, but I felt my opinion was invalidated and wrong.  I hold no one responsible but myself for the way I took it.  Each time I said she had issues I (as in me and no ones fault) felt it was dismissed as he was the bigger problem.  I didn't complain, but I do feel like I was being cared for by three roses.  I have felt like so few people have ever looked out or cared for me I cannot begin to tell you how good that felt.  Again, I feel both sides have strong emotional triggers.  This triggered in great depth the relationship I had with my mom and how she chose her husband and her own wellbeing over her daughter.  This is the mother that burned all of my photos.  I don't have a picture of me as a baby, or when I was 6 or when I was in junior high.  The memory of me has been burned.  Erased from existence.   And then to be told I was burned and erased..... Somehow I think three roses saw that.

Radical, mftb, woodsgnome - I have nothing but high regard for you.  I truly mean that.  We don't choose how EF's will come, they just happen.  I love you all and three roses.  I want my family together.  I hope we can all look at this for what it is.  A strong trigger in different ways for all of us.  We don't have to agree, just move on.  Since I recently found tears I am able to grieve for this.  Better than when I would hurt myself.  I think that the forum helped me with this too.

I think this isn't together or coherent, but I am okay with it.  I am super exhausted, tired of everything, I am okay with that too.

[Three Roses]

You were coherent Thanks to everyone for their support and understanding.

I am SO TIRED of Trump and Clinton I could scream. For 2 years we've been inundated with political ads attacking each other - and not just those two, either! I'm just sick of it.

Politics and religion are highly volatile subjects. I literally cringed when I deleted that post, bcuz deleting what people say runs completely against my personality. I realize you all don't know me that well, tho, and I do want to reassure everyone here that I'm not going to be gleefully deleting posts and locking threads. If I run the risk of anything, it is being too lenient, and we've already lost at least one member bcuz I didn't step in when I should have.

I find it ironic that I'm accused of censorship. I suppose it's censorship when your post gets edited/deleted but only moderators doing their jobs when it's someone else's post.

I honestly felt there was disregard for people's feelings and that is why the post was deleted, not because of anyone's political views which I couldn't care less about.

Keep in mind, if those of you who live in countries other than the U.S. are upset, think how we who live here feel. We are bruised and tired!

Thanks for listening.

[woodsgnome]

Thanks, Three Roses.

Without providing details too complex to explain, I'm actually a person without a country and have been for years. It was too hard to steer clear of the USA mess, though, as it leapt the usual bounds and touched on abuses that many here know too well.

Both candidates, their supporters, and the media were out-of-control, often with no visible rationale for their behaviours. But with the abusive   memories stirred by these rumbles it's not surprising it jumped into a couple of posts here, where feelings and emotions are volatile by nature. It may have seemed only political, and should have been; but it was also too human. As people in recovery, or trying to be, it's understandable how this forest fire leaped its bounds.

That said, my only reason for wanting to post this was to thank you for being honest about what actions you were involved in. As you've discovered, moderator on a forum touching raw emotions all around isn't exactly a piece of cake, per the old saying.

Thanks again for being you 

[movementforthebetter]

Hi guys, just poppong back to say hi and thank you to everyone, especially our hard-working mods, for keeping this difficult conversation going. I so appreciate your kindness and regret that I reacted angrily. Both the election and what happened on this thread triggered a big EF regarding being silenced by my FOO and authority figures, and I will step away for the week to ground myself so I can respond from a less emotionally raw place. I want to acknowledge that I don't think my post is totally clear which may have contributed. My account of what happened is accurate, but I am too raw to read my messages to see what went into resolving it.

On top of this I have a major life change happening and I haven't always been coping as gracefully as I would like, such as the past few days. (lol, who does?)

I hope everyone has a better week. It's been a tough one for me, for sure, but I hope to still see this as a safe space to respond in my way... Though I will reflect on whether I can communicate my point better.

Thanks, see you soon.

[Three Roses]

see you soon!