Dumping self absorbed, uncaring friends.

[Sienna]

Hello people.
Not sure if this belongs this section, but i thought id put it in anyway.

As well as being able to sometimes sit with these flashbacks and the difficult feelings, another success / progress i guess is the decision to not hang out with these *so called friends* i have.

I went there yesterday and i was disappointed that i went, but i think that going back there after a while of not seeing them, (due to them not connecting me), has given me a new perspective.
It has verified all the things i talked about in therapy with my T. It has helped me to see clearly what is going on with them, and my feelings i think are not crazy for the situation.

I realise that even if i dont talk much about myself (i never do), that sure makes others talk more about themselves.
But, last night, i was thinking, that if they were really interested in getting to know me, and if they really cared about me, they wouldnt act like that- totally self absorbed. Not even saying hello to me.
They never ask further question or enquire about how I'm doing. All of them just go...oh ok..and just jump onto talking about themselves.
i would understand if i was saying deeply personal stuff that would make them feel awkward - but I'm not.

And they do not think narc X did anything wrong. He has fooled them well.
I never talked to them about it because they are not supportive anyway, and then i read about how narcs twist things round so that know one would believe the truth of the person they hurt.
And they invited him over with out even telling they were going to last night, while i was there. I only knew because this guy was on the phone to him, in front of me.
I was there first, and he always hangs with them, so they could have thought that tonight, i can hang with them.
it seems only fair to me.

If they really knew me and were real friends, they wouldnt fall for these narc lies apparently.
i know i cant let anyone know me, I'm too closed off. But, they have never taken the chance, and maybe i sensed that long ago so i never let them know me.
Only now i *really realise* what my problem was with hanging out with them, because of talking about it with my T.

Maybe I'm just angry at not being believed, even though i havent fought to be believed because i know better.
I would never let what narc X did to them stop me hanging out with them.
They dont have to believe me, but inviting him over last night was just so dam unsupportive and uncaring.
But i also feel ignored in their company and it just induces flashbacks. I dont feel good when I'm around them.
I just silently picked up my bags and walked out of their house before X came round.
I was terrified.
The girl there text me and said she didnt know he was comming, and that he'd only be here for a short while. I was thinking, I'm sure * stay the whole evening, and she just doesnt understand the panic and terror and trapped feeling i feel when he is there, and she wouldnt because she doesnt know, and i cant tell her its due to his (and my parents) abuse...as she would never believe me.

And this couple and their arguments- too triggering.
And if i freak out , they wont understand why I'm triggered. i would never tell them, only if it came to it, as i feel i would have to so that i dont look crazy.

I hate being alone, but i sure as * feel better about that at the moment, than being with people like them.
It seems safer alone, even though i may flashback and have these difficult episodes to deal with.
I feel like its wrong to want that peace, like I'm living in this safe world on my own...cloud cook-oo land that is not based in reality.
But- i maybe am more in reality, purging these emotions during flashbacks, than i am hanging out with unhealthy, uncaring, boundryless people.

Even if i have no friends in my life, - that scared me a lot. Being alone.
But maybe if i can find a way to be by myself in the world, then it will be ok.
I may meet good people one day, but for now, my T is the only person i have and i think that is keeping me strong.
Scary place to be, in case she leaves...
but for now, I'm so appreciative that she is in my life.
I think that a lot of people who have been narcissistically abused end up being on their own, and lots have friends who are self absorbed etc. so they dont see them either.
Its no big loss as i was never close to them anyway.  i just need to know how to be alone.

I was so angry and ended up kicking the mop bucked in the yard and smashing a cup (was not intentional, just happened, ive been stuffing any rage id felt my entire life)

So last night felt like an ending. And it felt good, powerful.

Thanks for listening.

[Dutch Uncle]

  to you, dear Sienna.

They dont have to believe me, but inviting him over last night was just so dam unsupportive and uncaring.
But i also feel ignored in their company and it just induces flashbacks. I dont feel good when I'm around them.
I just silently picked up my bags and walked out of their house before X came round.
I was terrified.
The girl there text me and said she didnt know he was comming, and that he'd only be here for a short while. I was thinking, I'm sure * stay the whole evening, and she just doesnt understand the panic and terror and trapped feeling i feel when he is there, and she wouldnt because she doesnt know, and i cant tell her its due to his (and my parents) abuse...as she would never believe me.

That is preposterous. 

I'm sorry for your loss. They have not been good and caring friends, but it's a loss nonetheless. I can relate to that feeling all to well. That mixture of relief one the one hand, and anger on the other...

You're doing well, Sienna. A big    for you.

[Sienna]

Thank you so much for the hug Dutch Uncle. 

Preposterous. haha, made me chuckle. I do like that word!
I *really* appreciate your validation.
I thought you would understand, as i think you have had similar experiences, and i know you have had experiences with narcs too.

Its crazy. I dont miss them for them. I was just worried that i would be alone. Like with X, he was there physically (sometimes not), but not emotionally. Just him being there physically meant something to me i now realise. Maybe a comfort - thinking that he was there for me was thinking that it was my fault that i couldnt talk or be open with him.
T says i have been alone all this time, only now its hitting me because of the physical absence of him and others.

Anger and relief- yup. Im so comforted that you get it. (i hope your ok.) 

[Sienna]

Hey Artemis23,
Thank you too for your understanding. It is very triggering. Its kind of crazy to me that when you know the truth, and when you know you are telling the truth (i never told them anything though),
if you were to express your anger at being misbelieved, and the world going on like nothing ever happened to you, you would look guilty, like you were lying perhaps, because you were so indignant and angry for not being believed.
When you know the truth and you know you are being truthful and not making anything up, you can rest within your own heart that at least you know the truth..so why am i so outraged?

If you do believe me, thank you. Know one has to, and I'm so glad that my T does. I wish people could know the truth and that they could see inside my head.
But that wouldnt make them be any better friends.

Im so sorry you had friends like this. Its really not cool.
Do you mind if i ask...how you came to the realisation that you were more alone with invalidating people than actually being on your own?

Seeing the couple argue last night took me back to me and narc X. I felt so glad to be out of it as i remembered the pain and frustration- turbulence i was in.
I have this ache to not be alone... but i think that right now..i have disassociated it away.
It ebbs and flows. The lady narcissist said to me (could have been a lie) that she felt more alone with her X husband, than on her own.
I think i might start to feel this way too.

I could understand why you felt so angry and upset. Who wouldn't?
Thank you. Maybe part of me still thinks its just me and that normal people wouldnt react that way, and I'm like, is it about simply the present or the past? i think both.
But inviting him round...i mean, they never even asked to hear my side of the story and I'm staying at a women's refuge.

Im so sorry you can relate to this. Thank you so much for being here, and for helping me to feel less alone. Dutch Uncle too. You guys are awesome. 

[Sienna]

Oh Artemisis23, im so sorry. 
Despite having told them he was abusive and sexually assaulting me they continued to do this. Not ok. You must of felt so uncared about and disbelieved.
Until one day I got angry and stood up for myself then we stopped talking. Ouch. Its their loss. Well done for standing up for yourself. Must have taken a lot.
I told a friend that she wasn't a good friend because she didn't care how this person had harmed me just that he was annoying her and that she clearly didn't care about my well being.
Sounds like she only cared about herself, yes. Im so sorry you lost your friends, weather they were good friends or not. The hope that they might change, or the question that it might be us with the problem , not seeing clearly, vanishes.
Im glad you were finally able to say that to her.
Needless to say it ended the friendship, and I felt guilty after for standing up for myself (it was one of the first times), but it was for the best.
Man. the anger you must of felt. The guts and the cult afterwards you must of felt. I am guessing that your hurt inner child was screaming. They are not friends at all if they cant even hear you, weather they believe what you are saying or not.
It should be about how you feel (as well as them believing your truth. if they know you well enough they should know your telling the truth). And if its fear of theirs hearing about your abuse getting in the way, well, they are not the people you need.
if they can't accept your feelings...ugh. Stupid reason for the friendship to end.

Im so sorry this happened to you and that you had to go through this alone.
My narc X sexually abused me, and soon after he dumped me, a male friend sexually assaulted me. Known would ever believe me, and i ended up telling the lady in charge at the refuge, and she was so invalidating.
I self destructed and drank that evening. T believed me and has been so supportive. So i relate. I hope you had someone during that time...and I'm sorry if you didnt. 

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
When it is a choice, it seems easier.
Maybe I'm triggered now, because i dont have a choice but to be alone, and to be alone with these flashbacks. These friends, they hadn't connected me despite me connecting them and being there for them when they needed me. So i never had a choice in being alone.
Thanks for helping me to understand this!
Being alone with out choice, i do feel invisible and the same feeling that know one cares about me is there.

Being neglected i like to call it, around others, hurts so much, i understand. Its a reminder of what you should be getting from others, but that you are not.
I always thought that if you were alone , not by choice, if you saw yourself , your pain, your inner child, maybe you wouldn't feel alone. But i realise that sure, that needs to happen- self comforting, self validation etc. being able to sit with your feelings...
but the need to have external others and relationships is a very normal need, and that with healthy others, can help get your inner childs needs met. (T told me that).

I try and choose to not put myself in those situations now as much as possible.
I am glad.

I also trust your intuition not to tell these people about the abuse you have been through. It doesn't sound like they would be understanding or supportive from what you have said.
When i stayed with them after narc X before the refuge, he drank the wine he bought me for my birthday, with out asking whilst i was out..never apologised and he had a while rack of wine of his own to drink.
Then he lied on the phone to his girlfriend saying that we opened it together.
He was drunk and i cant remember what was said , but he said *nah man, i dont believe that (narc X) is like that. I dont believe you. But that doesnt mean that i wont be supportive.
(i never told him anything about X. and after that  i just said, *you know...i would not be going to a refuge if it wasnt serous*.
sure, not his fault he wont even ask what i have to say- well, he it is, but maybe he has been duped by my X way before he actually split up with me (this is what they do)
but him saying that did not open any door for me to talk to him about what happened.
I need believing above all after being called the crazy one by narc X.
people can only support you if they see the truth and believe you. Them thinking its just in your head, your irrational etc. is triggering like with the narc.
So what I'm trying to say, is that he could not be supprotie in the way i needed, in the way he should have been.
And saying that is incredibly unusppoortive.

Gosh. Scary. Hoovering. Sounds like a difficult time.
It reminded me of how my friends back east used to always tell me my psycho ex was asking them for my phone number and trying to contact me.

Huge hugs to you. 

[radical]

It doesn't just rain it pours!

So sorry Sienna (and also Atremis23).  This just sucks.  This is definitely not what friendship looks like. 

It does, so often seem to go this way in life though.  Abusive people accumulate as our self esteem plummets.  It's such a vicious circle, and it takes courage to be brave and stand up for yourselves when at a really low ebb..
But so worth it in the long run.

You are both awesome

[Danaus plexippus]

Your "friends" inviting you over and then calling your x to tell him, "Yes, she's here.  Moo, ha, ha, ha!" sounds like an ambush to me. I'd have totally freaked.  What b@$+@rds! Good riddance to bad rubbish! Join a group volunteering at something you like to do. Volunteers are the best people on earth! It will get you out of the shelter and connecting to communities of people trying to make the world a better place in which to live.

[Contessa]

Thank you so much for this post everyone. Gone through the same thing too.

I remember thinking that I would rather be alone than be with people who clearly didn't care. Problem is, like it was mentioned earlier in this post, I really don't want to be alone either.

The battle through the trauma is tremendously hard enough. To struggle in addition through friendships as well... we are the last ones to deserve that. We do deserve the respect that we ask for.


To you all

[Sienna]

It doesn't just rain it pours! Oh yes!

Thanks Radical.
This is definitely not what friendship looks like. 
What? It doesnt? Omg. I realise that i dont know what normal friendship looks like, or normal relationships.
Thank you for your support. It sounds like you understand what this is like a lot.

You are awesome too Radical! 

[Sienna]

Danaus, thats interesting, maybe it was an ambush.
I cant help thinking that narc X is doing it to hurt me.
him calling them when I'm around at their place,...saying yes to comming over whilst possibly knowing I'm here,
him knowing that I'm sitting there watching all this play out- watching these *friends* just invite him here. He knows I'm scared of him.
at volunteering he asked this person to go tell me that i dont need to leave the room every time he comes in,
so he knows I'm scared of him, or that i dont want to be around him.
He knows that i hide from him in one of the offices but still comes in and takes over the office so that i can't go back in there.
He is such a b*****d!
He knows he has them fooled, and maybe he knows i have figured him out and everting that is happening around me.
He may like to cause me pain by his plan he carefully set up to smear me to them before he broke up with me.

Do you really think it was a surprise attack?
My X is the one who called them.
on tuesday, beth invited me over. i found out that X was there with his new girl that night. i went over as planned on Wed.
Then X rang this guy up and this guy invited him over.
maybe they mentioned to X that i would be going over on wed.

I volunteer all week apart from friday and the weekend. He is there though but I'm not stopping going. he wont win.

[Sienna]

Artemis23,
It was awful but I learned a lot about my own needs and how to form boundaries and seek healthier relationships in the future. So it wasn't all a waste
Good for you. Learning about your own needs and how to set boundries- what your own boundaries are sounds helpful and much needed.
and how to seek healthier relationships - yes!!! i want to learn this- right now!!
I think you should be really proud of yourself! 

[Sienna]

Contessa,
Im sorry to hear you have gone through the same thing ):

Like you, i dont want to be alone either. I do think that to survive in this world, you have go be cold. maybe thats incorrect and thats a damaged part of me talking.

The battle through the trauma is tremendously hard enough. To struggle in additionTh through friendships as well... we are the last ones to deserve that. We do deserve the respect that we ask for.
I agree Contessa and this makes me feel very rage full and abused and dumped.
Indignant. I was feeling rage that night i left their place.
When we havent done anything wrong, it just not fair.
Thanks a lot Contessa 


To you all

[radical]

Sienna,
Your narc ex is at the place you spend three days of the week?
This isn't about winning or losing.  These people are dangerous.  They harm people.  And you are already injured. Could you start looking for other places to volunteer?  Maybe lower the time as you switch from one to the other, at the very least?  It's not giving-in to decide not to swim in a shark-tank.
I'm feeling concerned for you

[Sienna]

Hey Radical,
Thanks for your concern.

I know exactly what these types are like.
Im afraid of what he may say to me, as he has said things before. I think i can handle it, though sometimes the anxiety is so bad, i dont know what to do so i end up hiding in the toilet and i feel seriously stressed. T never suggested i change places to volunteer and I'm too afraid of going somewhere else, because its hard to get volunteering placements, and because i would find that super stressful, i just can't do it. It has stopped me volunteering at other places in the recent past, my shame etc , anxiety and lack of confidence.
I just can't do anything new at the moment. I never could, but at the moment, i cant do more stress if that makes sense.
Thank you so much for suggesting it.
There are people at the centre who know a bit of the deal, who said they believed me (well one one person, and she let X in the office, knowing Iwas there to begin with, because she came in and asked me to leave)

I know its not about winning or loosing. I just feel i have lost so much due to him, that i dont want him been at the centre to make me feel i have to leave. I would loose normality and people i know...nice others...the centre is literally all i have left so i dont want to leave.
And i can go there to use the internet on wedensdays (no internet where  i live).

I guess I'm just hoping that things will settle, that he will get bored of me, and that therefore, my anxiety will go down.

Its just so unafrair. If i had to leave, its not fair. Why should i! it should be him that has to leave.
Its better *for me* to not swim in the shark tank. I just shouldnt have to swim in it in the first place. i have every right to carry one with that i do on a daily basis.
Maybe i could talk to this lady - the nice one- about somewhere safe to go if he is around.
i know for my own health leaving might be a good idea. It would just be another thing that he has taken from me, though i gain peace..humm.

what do you think? i really appreciate your concern.

[radical]

I can understand that you have somewhere you value and feel valued?

It might be good to start making a transition away and part of that transition could be  establishing friendships with the nice people who make you feel good outside of the place you all volunteer.  If you are like me you might find it difficult to believe they would value you apart from what you are doing together.  But it is an important step for me where I volunteer, and I'm not leaving, I just need to take things to the next level.

I know V placements can be difficult to find and when you do, settling-in and feeling safe takes a lot of time and energy.  Do you have a volunteer centre (ie a place that organises volunteering placements) in your town?  They can be great to help find what's on offer, and to get advice about what might best suit.  Alternatively, if you have areas that interst you, go to the webites and send an email saying you have a couple of hours per week  and could you be of use?  You could "audition" a variety of places, and break away from the 'narc tank' gradually.

I don't feel it is safe to be where you are and that you will continue to be harmed if you stay.  I know it should be him that goes, believe me.